Strong Automatic Tranny

[MustangChris]

Hey J.R.

My friend and I are building a project car. It is pretty much trial and error. I was curious what automatic trans you would suggest for 1000+ HP. He wants to find a way to throw in a built chevy turbo 400 (or somethin' like that) and because its a mustang, with a ford motor, and a ford 9" i was curious if there was a ford tranny would could have built. We want it to be automatic to help the streetability. would a C4 or C6 work?

or am i just completely off and being a moron?

Thanks

 

[MustangChris]

also,

I found a cheep C6 tranny. Would it be possible to build the C6 that strong? and if so, would you be able to do it? I would like to have someone I know do it for me, and you seem to be the most brilliantest tranny guy Ive talked to, lol .. . .. so just let me know how much it would cost to build the C6, and if it is possible.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Well, i am flattered, lol. I need more specific's though.

What kind of car? And define 1000+ Horsepower and streetable, lol.

A C6 is a poor choice just because it's physically huge. They don't fit Fox and newer car's so well. A TH400 will laugh at pretty much anything you throw at it, and sucks less power than a C.

The downside to a Th400 is I'll have to put an Ultrabell on it. You'll be into a Th400 for 3k by the time I get you all switched over with a converter and everything.

Anyway, first, let me know, what car you are building, and we'll go from there.

 

[MustangChris]

Well, i am flattered, lol. I need more specific's though.

What kind of car? And define 1000+ Horsepower and streetable, lol.

A C6 is a poor choice just because it's physically huge. They don't fit Fox and newer car's so well. A TH400 will laugh at pretty much anything you throw at it, and sucks less power than a C.

The downside to a Th400 is I'll have to put an Ultrabell on it. You'll be into a Th400 for 3k by the time I get you all switched over with a converter and everything.

Anyway, first, let me know, what car you are building, and we'll go from there.

well I bought the car, its a 1996 mustang. so thats the frame and space we have to work with. We are ripping it down to bare everything... so if we need to shape or mold anything, its not a problem.

i bought the motor, and its fully disassembled, the only problems im having are a forged crankshaft and a proper flexplate. I have a feeling that these two things will be bought together to ensure a proper assembly.

Anyways the motor is a triton V10, we are going to twin turbo it. I found the pistons i want, the connecting rods i want. We are currently looking into boring+sleeving. Im looking for a good local shop here in denver that can do that right now...

I have found a cheep C6, but i wont even give it a second thought if you say not to...

We are throwing in a banjo ford 9" and a custom-made carbon fiber driveshaft. so maybe that may make the tranny a little easier if it doesnt have to fit with a certain driveshaft...

we are going with a full maximum motorsports suspension.

also, we are looking into a dry shot of N2O, but are currently leaning against it at the current moment.

anyways, it wont have back seats, if that helps?? incase we need to do something to the floorboards back there, thats all im thinking....

anyways, let me know what your thoughts are... We are hoping for roughly 1000 hp. and i wanted a manual transmission, but he warned against it.

thanks j.r.

also, where are you located? so i can keep my eyes open for a tranny out your way, instead of here in denver...

also, money isnt really an issue.... (i probably shouldnt tell that to the person writing the bill... lol) let me know what the most reliable option would be gold plated TKO600 with platinum sun gear? gotcha... lol

 

[Jrgunn5150]

You're probably a great candidate for a TH400 then. That V-10 is most likely going to be a lazy torque monster. If you want to keep overdrive we can even do a 4l85e, either way, they'll hold it just fine. Also the easiest most straightforward unit's to build for that kind of power.

I'm in Cleveland ohio BTW, and since it's a modular, any transmission will do, I'm going to have to cut the bellhousing off it anyway.

 

[MustangChris]

You're probably a great candidate for a TH400 then. That V-10 is most likely going to be a lazy torque monster. If you want to keep overdrive we can even do a 4l85e, either way, they'll hold it just fine. Also the easiest most straightforward unit's to build for that kind of power.

I'm in Cleveland ohio BTW, and since it's a modular, any transmission will do, I'm going to have to cut the bellhousing off it anyway.

so the TH400 doesnt have OD and the 4l85E does?

I'd prefer OD, for highway purposes I suppose... incase a car show is 30 miles away or something... lol.

Ill start looking in Cleveland and see what I can find. Are you jsut going to shave the bellhousing? such as cutting it in half? because doesnt the TQ converter sit in the bell housing? or am i wrong? ... lol.

I want the car to last for as long as possible. I dont know about transmissions, so i dont know if these come out of the box being able to hold that kind of power, but i want it built to last as long as possible. This isnt exactly a budget build. lol. (obviously)

I have the tune shop i want to do it. The head shop. now the tranny man ;-) and all i have left is to find a motor shop for the rest of the block. then ill be ready to start dumpin' some $$. lol.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I want the car to last for as long as possible. I dont know about transmissions, so i dont know if these come out of the box being able to hold that kind of power, but i want it built to last as long as possible. This isnt exactly a budget build. lol. (obviously)

Not out of the box, it will need to be gone through for sure.

As for the bell housing, yes, I'll have to cut it in half, and replace the bellhousing with a JW Ultrabell to mate to your modular motor. Always fun, cutting transmissions in half, lol. There are also SFI approved though, so you don't have to worry about your feet

 

[MustangChris]

I want the car to last for as long as possible. I dont know about transmissions, so i dont know if these come out of the box being able to hold that kind of power, but i want it built to last as long as possible. This isnt exactly a budget build. lol. (obviously)

Not out of the box, it will need to be gone through for sure.

As for the bell housing, yes, I'll have to cut it in half, and replace the bellhousing with a JW Ultrabell to mate to your modular motor. Always fun, cutting transmissions in half, lol. There are also SFI approved though, so you don't have to worry about your feet

feet? who needs those? lol!

alright, so we got the bellhousing, and the tranny, and ill get a driveshaft once we get all that taken care of...

Obviously I have to get a custom built crankshaft. Do you have a suggestion on a place where I can purchase one? Also, will the flexplate matter? can I buy an OEM one? or a lightweight one? will they bolt up okay? Should I just buy it with the crankshaft at, wherever it is i buy it? lol.


thanks again JR, i already started looking around for those trannys, but havent had luck yet up in your neck of the woods... ill keep my eyes open...

 

[Jrgunn5150]

you said custom crank, but I assume you mean custom driveshaft, in which case, Tom Woods, www.4xshaft.com does all of mine for my Willy's, Blazer, jeep, whatever. I'm, sure he can set you up easily.

For the flexplate, I would just use the OEM one that's on it. Unless you actually want an SFI approved one as well, in which case we'd need to find out if it's the same balance as a 4.6/5.4 flexplate.

Whenever you're ready to go forward, i can probably source a trans locally for about 300 bucks as well. Or one might come through my junkyard.

I thought I put this in my earlier post, but I must have typed over it. There are a couple of six speed autos floating around now, while I can't guarantee their strength (replaced the 4l80e for what it's worth though), would definately add some flash to the project.

 

[MustangChris]

you said custom crank, but I assume you mean custom driveshaft, in which case, Tom Woods, www.4xshaft.com does all of mine for my Willy's, Blazer, jeep, whatever. I'm, sure he can set you up easily.

For the flexplate, I would just use the OEM one that's on it. Unless you actually want an SFI approved one as well, in which case we'd need to find out if it's the same balance as a 4.6/5.4 flexplate.

Whenever you're ready to go forward, i can probably source a trans locally for about 300 bucks as well. Or one might come through my junkyard.

I thought I put this in my earlier post, but I must have typed over it. There are a couple of six speed autos floating around now, while I can't guarantee their strength (replaced the 4l80e for what it's worth though), would definately add some flash to the project.

no, i meant custom crank. The stock V10 wont hold 1,000 HP will it?

and dont tempt me!!! >.< 6 spd auto? ... damn... that would be pretty sick... any ideas on the performance on them? the reliability? to be honest, im following you on the transmission part of this.

and i would prefer a SFI approved flexplate, i plan on having the motor completely balanced and having a custom made dampner made.....

if you find one going through the junk yard. the one with OD, ill buy it then and there. we can figure it out from there. untill i get a little bit more knowlege in my empty head, I dont want you spending your valuable time searching for a tranny...

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Stock V-10 cranks are forged, and sourced from Kellogg, the same as Cobra cranks... As for durability, I dunno, but now you know what I know, lol.

The 6l80e was designed to replace the 4l80/85e's, providing better mileage and to keep pace with the rapidly increasing torque input trucks are getting from the factory. Tuning is what I would worry about more than durability. The transmission are very much electronic, relying not only on vehicle speed and rpm inputs, but also on engine load, torque input, whether the brakes are applied, etc.

If you are interested in going that route, I can check into standalone options for them. Like I said, it would be more for the show, than go aspect, but it's still pretty neat, I think.

If you are having the motor balanced, then first find out what imbalance (if any) the 6.8 uses, and see if you can just use a 4.6/5.4 SFI replacement.

 

[MustangChris]

Stock V-10 cranks are forged, and sourced from Kellogg, the same as Cobra cranks... As for durability, I dunno, but now you know what I know, lol.

The 6l80e was designed to replace the 4l80/85e's, providing better mileage and to keep pace with the rapidly increasing torque input trucks are getting from the factory. Tuning is what I would worry about more than durability. The transmission are very much electronic, relying not only on vehicle speed and rpm inputs, but also on engine load, torque input, whether the brakes are applied, etc.

If you are interested in going that route, I can check into standalone options for them. Like I said, it would be more for the show, than go aspect, but it's still pretty neat, I think.

If you are having the motor balanced, then first find out what imbalance (if any) the 6.8 uses, and see if you can just use a 4.6/5.4 SFI replacement.

we were looking into an AEM stand alone. Any ideas? ive heard good things about them. but only from 1 mustang owner. the rest of the mustang owners i tend to meat dont really have stand alones, just re-flashes with SCT and Diablo sport chips and what not.

Im leaning more toward the 4l85e. I want it to be a beast on the 1/4, and i would hate to only hit 3rd gear at the end. lol. Ill save the 6 spd for my current mustang ;-) lol!

and thanks for the heads up on the crank! i was really dreading trying to find a place to get one forged. good to know they already come that way lol

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I'm not familiar with AEM, Big Stuff I have used, pretty nice, and it has the ability to control GM's electronic transmissions. Not sure if either will fire a V-10 though.

 

[MustangChris]

O i c. Ill have to look into some of the Tuner's and computers. is the 4L85E computer driven too? because if it is that complicates things. We were also looking into a turbo 400.... will that be a little bit more realistic?

 

[Jrgunn5150]

Yes the 4l80/85e are electronic, hence the "e" in the names. There are standalone controller's just for running the transmissions, or you can do it with certain standalone ecu's.

Th400 are in the same case as the 4l80/85e, so they require the same amount of work from me to get them to fit. They just don't have overdrive, making it easier for you to get it in the car and shifting.

 

[MustangChris]

is there a benifit from the 80 and the 85?

also, can we use a stand alone for the tranny and a stand alone for the motor?

and I've got some spare cash, so just let me know if a tranny passes through the junkyard.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

is there a benifit from the 80 and the 85?

Yes, the 85 is stronger, either way, it's getting built with 85 parts, so finding one for a core will probably keep the costs down.

also, can we use a stand alone for the tranny and a stand alone for the motor?

Yes, that's how I would do it personally.

I'll check on a core for you tomorrow. FYI, the core charge on it will be 300, that's a flat rate I charge everyone.

 

[MustangChris]

is there a benifit from the 80 and the 85?

Yes, the 85 is stronger, either way, it's getting built with 85 parts, so finding one for a core will probably keep the costs down.

also, can we use a stand alone for the tranny and a stand alone for the motor?

Yes, that's how I would do it personally.

I'll check on a core for you tomorrow. FYI, the core charge on it will be 300, that's a flat rate I charge everyone.

alright let me know whatcha find. Also, before any checks are written or money is wired, where can we store the tranny?

and finally, will you need to see the car for any reason? If you need it (for a perfect fit, or something along those lines) we will have to tow it up. which is fine later on, but def. not this winter. lol But would you like to install it? or is it pretty simple? would you like to install it before or after the rear end goes in? tell me what would be perfect for you.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I have nothing at this time, all half tons out there. i'll keep an eye peeled though, I see 50-60 car's a week come through, probably gonna slow down this winter though.

The trans can stay at my house until you are ready for it, no problems there.

I can install it if you like, it's just a matter of mocking up the crossmember and welding it though, everything else, the driveshaft, shifter, etc is just a matter of buying universal hot rod part's.

Let me give you a rough estimate at this point, and you can decide if you want to go forward from there.

TH4l85e Core charge -300
Part's, labor - 2500
Converter - 650
standalone transmission controller (programable in car, no laptop needed)- 1000

So before shipping, and various nut's and bolts, you're at about 4500. But again, it's the only OD trans I can recomend in an application that should easily nail 1000 rwtq.

 

[MustangChris]

I have nothing at this time, all half tons out there. i'll keep an eye peeled though, I see 50-60 car's a week come through, probably gonna slow down this winter though.

The trans can stay at my house until you are ready for it, no problems there.

I can install it if you like, it's just a matter of mocking up the crossmember and welding it though, everything else, the driveshaft, shifter, etc is just a matter of buying universal hot rod part's.

Let me give you a rough estimate at this point, and you can decide if you want to go forward from there.

TH4l85e Core charge -300
Part's, labor - 2500
Converter - 650
standalone transmission controller (programable in car, no laptop needed)- 1000

So before shipping, and various nut's and bolts, you're at about 4500. But again, it's the only OD trans I can recomend in an application that should easily nail 1000 rwtq.

sounds like a plan. Keep those eyes peeled. lol.

what stall do you suggest?

I think what I will do, is get the motor built and dropped in, (or at least dropped in) and then once the tranny is done, tow it to OH for you to do the install.

Would you need a running motor to install and program?