SuperCharger

[justinschmidt1]

Ah, ok so now suddenly superchargers are not a precision made item that is susceptible to the same laws of phisics as everything else in the universe? Saying there is no difference in a re-freshed unit and a new one is just asinine and if that was the case they would be more expensive on the resale market. My point is that buying used, precision made performance parts is always going to be a crapshoot, I learned a tough lesson on the used heads I bought by watching my bottom end go out on the dyno tuning them. Yes it is a fairly simple design but that doesn't mean that those simple parts or a small hardly viewable crack in the one of the parts might not make it back into the package and what will happen if it grenades will you be out a supercharger or a charger and a motor? When I look into used parts, I consider the penalty for failure and to me a used charger is just an invatation for problems down the line that you can't blame anyone else for causing but yourself.

Im not going to argue with you..I really dont care because your opinion is well, your opinion.

IMO, buying a used supercharger is fine due to how they are made and the fact that its a few gears and some bearings.

Yea, they are precision made, and when they are rebuilt with new internals, they are put back together precisely, otherwise they would explode within 10 miles.

 

[rz5.0]

So the engine you put it you car was new? Same thing replace bearings machine surfaces new seals gaskets.

 

[justinschmidt1]

So the engine you put it you car was new? Same thing replace bearings machine surfaces new seals gaskets.

An engine is a lot more complicated than a supercharger, but if you took an engine down to bare block, bored it out, replaced the rods/pistons/crank/machined surfaces, seals, gaskets, bearings, the works,

I would consider that a "new" engine.

Did you not see the picture I posted? These superchargers have a handful of bearings seals and 2 gear shafts...they are simple.

 

[ttocs]

When my motor went, after being upside down from the heads as much as I would have loved to put a new motor back in it(Who wouldn't right) but I could not afford it so I settled for a rebuilt motor because it was cheaper. Why was it cheaper? Its used, any mechanical device is only going to turn so many times before something gives out in it. Refreshing seals and bearings will certainly help it last longer but is it really as good as a new one? hell no which is why its cheaper.... If after refreshing them all things were equal, wouldn't the price be too? Wouldn't vortex buy them back, refresh them and then charge a premium for a factory refreshed unit?

I agree with your first post that they are precision made when the are new and shiney and that they would explode in no time if they were not. This is no different for the refreshed ones, they are just a little less precise then a new one more often then not. You make it sound as though vortex sprinkles some fairy dust on it and viola, perfectly new again! I am more of a realist that thinks there are probably just as many(if not more) bad sellers then good ones that will of course tell you they didn't romp on it, hardly drove it and it only has 10k miles on it when its just not the case. Take that into account and then ask yourself what could happen if it does grenade? Can I end up loosing my motor too, yes. With all that added up when/if I ever go forced induction I will go for no less then new pieces just like I just did on my heads. I hope yours continues for years with good service. With a new product I expect that, with a used/refreshed one all you can do is hope for it to keep working....

 

[justinschmidt1]

Your points seem dumb to me..of course a rebuild is going to be cheaper than a new unit, otherwise the people that make a living rebuilding motors, would not have any business cause why the hell would someone rebuild a motor when they can buy a new one for the same price?

I still disagree with what your saying cause if your take a motor down to its bare block and replace everything, why wouldnt it be just as good as a new motor?

Hell, it might even be better.

Either way, I bet the gears in my blower out last my car. So unless you guys plan on running your car for 10 million miles to somehow wear down the gears in your blower, I dont think anyone would have a problem.

You can mess up your engine if your running a non intercooled setup, but usually there is enough piping with an intercooled setup that if it breaks, nothing will make it to the engine.

 

[rz5.0]

I actually agree with you. I got a used one. They are cheap because people upgrade or are parting out. They usually are discontinued units too reason for being cheaper.

 

[justinschmidt1]

I actually agree with you. I got a used one. They are cheap because people upgrade or are parting out. They usually are discontinued units too reason for being cheaper.

A few more good points, they make newer/ better units and people want to ugprade

Plus the newer v3 units are out so all the previous ones values are lowered.

 

[ttocs]

Saying that a used and rebuilt motor is as good or better then a new one sounds dumb to me. I mean I guess it might have been in a grandmothers car that drove it to church on sunday, never saw above 2k rpms. On the other end of the spectrum there is the chance it was taken out of a purpose built drag-racer that jo-bob who knows dick about the car did all the rigged-work to himself while taking down countless runs. If I had to guess which area of the spectrum that a supercharger would come from I would think it would be more down on the end of jo-bobs abuse. People do not install these to watch the mpg increase, they do it to watch the hp increase and to drive it like they stole it. Now honestly do you think that if I had a new one infront of you, and a used one and asked which one would last longer you would really point at the refreshed one? REally now???

Now part of the reason we do not see eye-to-eye is because I DO plan on keeping my 94 gt for ever since it was originally purchased by my mother. Because of this I would rather take the extra time to save some cash up and put something in my car that I know will keep running long after the refreshed piece wears out.

 

[ttocs]

I actually agree with you. I got a used one. They are cheap because people upgrade or are parting out, OR THEY ARE STARTING TO WORRY THAT AT THE VERY LEAST THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE REFRESHED BEFORE IT GRENADES. They usually are discontinued units too reason for being cheaper.

you forgot option #3 there so I fixed it for ya. Maybe its just the pessimist in me but I trust anyone selling used performance parts less then I do a used car dealer. The dealer is at least bound by laws of contract, craigslist has no laws to protect you..

 

[ttocs]

I actually agree with you. I got a used one. They are cheap because people upgrade or are parting out, OR ARE WORRIED THAT THE SYTSEM AT THE VERY LEAST NEEDS TO BE REFRESHED BEFORE IT GRENADES THEIR MOTOR. They usually are discontinued units too reason for being cheaper.

You forgot the third option there so I fixed it for ya. Maybe its the pessimist in me but I trust people that are selling performance parts even less then I do a used car dealer, even if its a friend. The dealer is at least bound by contract laws, there are no laws on the classifieds here nor on craigs list.

Interesting point that people would want to get rid of their old systems and UPGRADE to a newer one as you put it. maybe they are making more boost with the new units, or maybe they have made improvements on the design to make them stronger and better, or maybe they are just happy that the problem they started to have with the old one(And gave it to you with a big bow on top) is gone now? Either way NIB FTW fer me.

Now part of the reason we do not see eye to eye is because I do plan on keeping my car for ever. It was originally purchased new by my mother and for that reason it can't be replaced and why I am willing to spend the extra time to get something that I KNOW will last rather then save a few buck and pray that its better then a new one.

 

[justinschmidt1]

All I hear is blah blah blah, my opinion is all that matters.

I could buy a used unit and send it back to vortech to rebuild it 3 times before I get to the price of a new one.

And your saying all this crap with no substance.

Ive been around the block, and honestly, I NEVER hear anyone having catastrophic failures with vortech blowers.

Let me throw some real life at you.

my car is my DD.
my car gets driven nearly every day, 12 months out of the year
my car has a USED engine from an 04 explorer
my car has a USED supercharger that was rebuilt
My car also runs low 11s at the track and gets beat on harder than 99% of the people that own cars.

Guess what?

Its been over 2 years and ive had no problems with either of these used parts, even though im over whats even considered safe on a stock 4.6

Ill come back and say your were right when my vortech blows into 10,000 pieces...Until then, STFU because there is nothing wrong with a used vortech head unit, especially if you send it back and get the seals/bearings replaced.

 

[justinschmidt1]

Let me add that I do agree, buying certain items used or cheap is a bad idea and you will end up buying twice.

But certain things, like a used supercharger head unit, I would never say not to buy used.

 

[Anchor-Room]

My opinion is that you two do not like each other....lol. All BS aside - I buy new, because it makes me feel better AND have had instances in the past where buying used has kicked ME in the marbles. Ironically on the flip side, I sell a ton of used parts (including blowers) and have only had a few instances over the last 3 or so years where a part did not perform, I however supported the product since I value my name.....

All this is again just MY opinion

 

[rz5.0]

Im cheap so I buy use first. Havent had any bad luck yet.

 

[Anchor-Room]

Im cheap so I buy use first. Havent had any bad luck yet.

You better knock on wood!

 

[Musturd]

Justins post rules

 

[ttocs]

ok, your right I give in. Vortex makes their products perfectly and then even sprinkles their fairy dust on them so that they never ever ever blow up. They can manipulate the space/time vortex if something does go wrong to go back in time and fix everything so that you will never hear about how they blew up. Obviously you know everything about blowers because you own one and if you have never heard of a bad one, then they simply must not exist as I am sure if someone were to return one, they would be notifying you.

All I am sayin is shit goes bad eventually, nothing lasts for ever. Every mechanical part you buy has a certain number of times it will turn,only so many time that it will go through a heat/cold expansion and contraction, so long before it is beyond the ability to refresh. A new unit unless faulty from the manf will ALWAYS have a longer term of life.

Again I hope your charger will last for ever and that you will never need to say that it blew up as it sucks when being cheap actually gets expensive.

 

[justinschmidt1]

I agree with what your saying but at the same time, in my eyes, the theoretical time frame in which a vortech blowers internals (the 2 gear shafts) will break down is far longer than our cars will last which is why I am saying a used one with new bearings and seals will be just as good as a new unit for people that dont intend on running their mustangs until the year 2500.

 

[justinschmidt1]

My opinion is that you two do not like each other....lol. All BS aside - I buy new, because it makes me feel better AND have had instances in the past where buying used has kicked ME in the marbles. Ironically on the flip side, I sell a ton of used parts (including blowers) and have only had a few instances over the last 3 or so years where a part did not perform, I however supported the product since I value my name.....

All this is again just MY opinion

You have to weigh your options with everything.

How much of a discount is a used piece?

Is this piece sensitive to use?

Will those cost me big time if this piece goes bad?
ETC ETC

This thread is a bout superchargers.

When talking about superchargers, I see absolutely no reason not to buy a used one as long as the thing turns by hand and it isnt obvious that the internal gears are destroyed.

obviously buying a used motor or trans that you have never heard/seen running is kind of a crap idea.

 

[rz5.0]

Move this to the FI forum