Tracking an sn95 ?

[Frank.JD.Perez]

I just want to add some clarity about upper control arms, because the OP and others reading this thread will benefit from having more information. For 30 years, I've been told that Mustangs can't handle with the rear upper control arms in place. I've seen countless posts/comments about how these cars can't be used for performance driving with all 4 rear control arms on the car, because of quadra-bind. Quadra-bind is a real thing; I'm not denying that. But the issue has been blown out of proportion over the years because it's a great marketing tool, and because many popular mods make our cars handle worse. If your Fox or SN95 Mustang has the original OEM rubber rear upper control arm bushings in place, they are well past their prime. It's going to handle poorly when pushed to the limit. If you put stiff 1- or 2-piece poly bushings in the UCA location, lower the car too much, and install stiffer aftermarket shocks and struts, your car is going to oversteer like crazy on an autocross course. All too often, a maintenance or modification issue gets referred to as a "quadra-bind" issue. This results in cars that have a handling issue most people can drive around being labelled "undriveable" in performance settings.

Why is this important? Because the idea that you need to completely rebuild your rear suspension to even attempt performance driving in a 79-04 Mustang makes it incredibly hard to get people to autocross their Mustangs. And you can't remove the UCAs or install a Torque Arm in some SCCA Categories. Many Mustangs have been autocrossed in Street Category over the years with OEM upper control arms and rubber bushings. In SCCA Categories/classes with less restrictive rules, it is 100% possible to autocross a Fox or SN95 Mustang with all 4 rear control arms in place. I've used aftermarket rear control arms with 3-piece poly bushings and spherical upper differential housing bushings for years, and I've never experienced quadra-bind.

Installing a rear suspension system that removes the UCAs will improve the handling of your Mustang (provided your other mods and adjustments are correct). Unfortunately, that has become the first piece of advice most people get when they say they want to try autocrossing their Mustangs. It was the first piece of advice I got. I was told my whole setup was wrong. While that didn't deter me, I know for a fact advice like that has deterred others.

I'm not trying to dissuade anybody from sharing their experience with their suspension setups. There's a wealth of information on this forum about all sorts of handling mods. I just wanted to balance out the conversation about upper control arms.

i still have my stock uppers on the car... just have a mm phb, RLCAs and an eibach sway with koni SAs and convetional springs with a coil cut

 

[white95]

ded

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

sent this to josef awhile back

 

[unterstutzung87]

Well I will say I understand why people drive these little imports at autocross events. I wasn't in their class but I got smoked by cars on that on a straight away I would kill in my mustang. It was fun, not as much fun as drag racing to me but still fun. The car did fine it doesn't handle awful but the 4.10 gears in 1st and 2nd gear would produce oversteer pretty quickly. With lots of suspension work I think it could be good, at autocross. I think it would accel alot more on a more high speed course like a track day. Long story short it's enjoyable but not something I would trade for drag racing. I will say it gave me clarity of what I want to do in the future though and would recommend it to anybody it is fun for sure.

 

[Frank.JD.Perez]

pics n vids

 

[unterstutzung87]

pics n vids

Sorry I just moved and dont know anyone and have no friends here yet so no pics and videos. Plus I don't do social media so I don't normally take alot of pictures.

 

[white95]

What SCCA region was it?

 

[weendoggy]

Well I will say I understand why people drive these little imports at autocross events. I wasn't in their class but I got smoked by cars on that on a straight away I would kill in my mustang. It was fun, not as much fun as drag racing to me but still fun. The car did fine it doesn't handle awful but the 4.10 gears in 1st and 2nd gear would produce oversteer pretty quickly. With lots of suspension work I think it could be good, at autocross. I think it would accel alot more on a more high speed course like a track day. Long story short it's enjoyable but not something I would trade for drag racing. I will say it gave me clarity of what I want to do in the future though and would recommend it to anybody it is fun for sure.

Don't put yourself down. Look at it as having fun. Those little imports may have lots of mods and seat time, which helps tremendously. I had similar experiences when I started auto-x in my F5 Cobra, but soon found what was needed to be better. I ran 3.27 gears and with the HP/Torque was able to hold my own quite a bit in the top 5. Gave it up for open track, which for me is much more fun and learned how to handle the car in "daily driving" type conditions. With my '02 powered Coyote, it is able to keep up/pass those little imports, but they do handle corners much better. They are "momentum cars" and I give them the respect they deserve. Best to know your own limitations to be good.

 

[Warhorse Racing]

I'm glad you went to the event, and I'm glad you had fun. Your first autocross event can be overwhelming; there's a lot to learn and a sea of cones that can be confusing. It gets exponentially easier with each event you attend. And, as your autocross skills improve, you'll get much closer to the other cars on course. Every car out there has limitations, learning how to drive around those limitations makes you a better driver. For example, your 4.10 gears aren't ideal for autocross, but they will teach you proper throttle input timing. It's important to look at every aspect of your car as a tool to help you improve your driving skills. I hope you give autocross another try.

 

[white95]

Proper input timing with 4.10 can be the difference between not enough and Vaughn Gitten Jr antics

 

[mike stevens]

autox is significantly less costly than tracking your car. I have done decades of both. entry fees, wear and tear on the car. The big advantanges of on track, are seat time, seat time, and seat time. And speed. I love the speed.
Starting with autoxing is the best way to get started. everything you learn there is great for transitioning to open tracks.

Mike

 

[badass98svt]

I just want to add some clarity about upper control arms, because the OP and others reading this thread will benefit from having more information. For 30 years, I've been told that Mustangs can't handle with the rear upper control arms in place. I've seen countless posts/comments about how these cars can't be used for performance driving with all 4 rear control arms on the car, because of quadra-bind. Quadra-bind is a real thing; I'm not denying that. But the issue has been blown out of proportion over the years because it's a great marketing tool, and because many popular mods make our cars handle worse. If your Fox or SN95 Mustang has the original OEM rubber rear upper control arm bushings in place, they are well past their prime. It's going to handle poorly when pushed to the limit. If you put stiff 1- or 2-piece poly bushings in the UCA location, lower the car too much, and install stiffer aftermarket shocks and struts, your car is going to oversteer like crazy on an autocross course. All too often, a maintenance or modification issue gets referred to as a "quadra-bind" issue. This results in cars that have a handling issue most people can drive around being labelled "undriveable" in performance settings.

Why is this important? Because the idea that you need to completely rebuild your rear suspension to even attempt performance driving in a 79-04 Mustang makes it incredibly hard to get people to autocross their Mustangs. And you can't remove the UCAs or install a Torque Arm in some SCCA Categories. Many Mustangs have been autocrossed in Street Category over the years with OEM upper control arms and rubber bushings. In SCCA Categories/classes with less restrictive rules, it is 100% possible to autocross a Fox or SN95 Mustang with all 4 rear control arms in place. I've used aftermarket rear control arms with 3-piece poly bushings and spherical upper differential housing bushings for years, and I've never experienced quadra-bind.

Installing a rear suspension system that removes the UCAs will improve the handling of your Mustang (provided your other mods and adjustments are correct). Unfortunately, that has become the first piece of advice most people get when they say they want to try autocrossing their Mustangs. It was the first piece of advice I got. I was told my whole setup was wrong. While that didn't deter me, I know for a fact advice like that has deterred others.

I'm not trying to dissuade anybody from sharing their experience with their suspension setups. There's a wealth of information on this forum about all sorts of handling mods. I just wanted to balance out the conversation about upper control arms.

Do you still run quad shocks?

 

[Warhorse Racing]

Do you still run quad shocks?

I do run quad shocks. I know it's common for people to remove them, but I prefer having them on the car. My OEM quad shocks only lasted about 3 years, so I recommend finding an inexpensive set of aftermarket quad shocks. The KYB quad shocks I use have a covered shaft, which can make fitting larger rear tires more difficult. There are more expensive aftermarket quad shocks that don't have a covered shaft. If you don't have a tire clearance issue, I don't think you need expensive quad shocks; a decent pair of functioning quad shocks will work.

 

[wmfateam]

Here is a diff view from when I first started. I think the only mods at this point were Eibach springs, MM poly lower control arms, adjustable sway bar(from steeda nut not sure the brand), quadshocks removed and 18x9.5 wheels with Toyo R888 tires. Eventually moved to road course and went all spherical four link. Competed against a full MM cataloge car, also a 96 Cobra but was lighter and had 15 more hp, and never felt like the car couldn't compete. Autocross is great for learning car control and in my opinion, the first step in "tracking."

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