Truth about NPI vs PI

Discussion in '96-04 - 2V Specific' started by blackfang, Jan 12, 2006.

  1. 98faleen

    98faleen New Member

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    Does anyone have a dyno sheet or any proof that just doing the cam and intake swap adds power. I have just been hearing that it wont do a thing so if some has a before and after dyno that would be sweet. also i just had a new motor put in about a month ago. it was straight from ford as a remanufactured motor. how can i tell if i already have the intake and/or heads? thanks guys.
     
  2. blackfang

    blackfang Active Member

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    www.linktrek.com and go into their forums and write ups. Proven 35 rwhp from just the intake and cams.
     
  3. 98faleen

    98faleen New Member

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    sweet that link has made me a believer and now i know where my next few hundred bucks are going. :banana:
     
  4. wolvee123

    wolvee123 New Member

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    I think the last owner of my stang may have done a intake swap but I dont know how to tell the difference between PI and NPI... The GT seems like it has a lot more power than the 215 stock hp from the factory....

    Hey everyone this is my first post so dont blast me if I posted in the wrong area!

    How do I tell which intake is on my stang and is there any way to tell the diff on the heads? thanks
    wolvee
     
  5. ALITL8

    ALITL8 Well-Known Member

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    hey wolvee, i'd take it to a dyno before making assumptions based on how it "feels". our 97 only made 203rwhp but it made 279.6rwtq... torque feels fast and powerful. also that 215 hp is read at the "flywheel" and varies at the "wheels" depending on the transmission (auto < manual)

    as far as knowing whether or not you have a PI upgrade, its hard to say. i have the upgraded stock intake which, on the surface, looks like a PI intake. without removing the intake i doubt there is a way to tell from the surface. maybe a part # if you can find one stamped on the part itself :dunno:

    the dyno will tell you for sure... 185-195 hp very stock... mild mods (like mine), around 200-210 hp, PI upgraded, mild mods, should be in the 230-250 range. if im wrong someone please correct me but i think those #'s are pretty close :dunno:

    here's another very informative link ;D
    http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/0302MMFF_MixMatch/
     
  6. Dalamar

    Dalamar Post Whore Retired Staff SN95 Supporter

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    Yes those numbers are correct.
     
  7. Adam

    Adam Member

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    Ok, I'll tell you what, you find me a NPI headed car that has run 12.60's with just cams and is 100% stock longblock besides. And it has to weigh at least 3270lbs. Guess what, it ain't gonna happen. Johnny Langton is a friend of mine, as a matter of fact i just got off the phone with him. I will agree that PORTED NPI heads can perform/or outperform ported PI heads, but in stock form the PI heads are superior. Johhny cars is a legit 11sec car if it weighed what a Stang did. Argue on! ;D

    Adam
     
  8. DropTopPony

    DropTopPony Administrator Staff Member Admin SN95 Supporter

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    Whats your point? We all know stock for stock PI is better then NPI(as a package). BUT its the intake and cams that make up most of the difference. When they are installed on NPI heads its a much improved car. That is what is being said here. So PI heads are worth what? 10 rwhp ish?
     
  9. Adam

    Adam Member

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    There was some insinuation that the PI heads were a bad idea, I was simply stating that you will not find a car running those kinds of ET's even with Cams and PI intake and stock NPI heads. If they are worth only 10rwhp then another automatic like mine with NPI heads, Vt stage 1 cams, and PI intake should be able to run 12.71 is what your saying? Thats my point.
     
  10. DropTopPony

    DropTopPony Administrator Staff Member Admin SN95 Supporter

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    Actually Kyle(badass96) on Corral was mid 12's with the stock NPI heads. He had Anderson motorsports cams and a FRPP NPI intake. He hasn't been NPI or N/A in a few years so is over 600rwhp now so i doubt he has any of his old dyno sheets he used to post.

    I bet you wouldn't drop much if any if you swapped NPI heads back on your setup. Could be a good test for you.
     
  11. Adam

    Adam Member

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    If it was an automatic and the race weight was at least 3270 then I stand corrected, but I doubt either one of these requirements was filled.. :) I wouldn't waste my time putting them back on it would easily cost me alot of ET not to mention having to ghetto the PI intake to the NPI heads. Its all personal preference. The compression bump is worth quite a bit in my book.
     
  12. DropTopPony

    DropTopPony Administrator Staff Member Admin SN95 Supporter

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    No he has a manual but was still full weight back then. I know he's gutted it out now.
     
  13. blackfang

    blackfang Active Member

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    No one insinuated anything. All that was said was that many see the NPI's as crap or they suck. In stock form,yes they do. In all reality for your average Mustang fan you can still go fast with them without spending a ton of money.

    People assume you always must have a PI headswap. You do not, that is just people jumping onto the bandwagon, saying I need PI heads and PI cams and PI intake, when they really have no clue what they need. For the amount of money you spent on PI heads, you could make more power porting the stock NPI's. Fact, you can make decent power with a PI intake/cams and ported NPI heads for your average joe. However, if you want a serious engine and will be spending alot of time at the track competing, then yes I wouldnt use the NPI's and go with a ported PI head, and cams.
     
  14. Adam

    Adam Member

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    Actually after re reading my post I never put up one of my main reasons for using the PI heads also. That was because nobody makes anything that bolts to NPI heads. If they do, its the last item to be made. Intakes, KB blowers..etc. I almost forgot that reason..sorry..

    Adam
     
  15. Dalamar

    Dalamar Post Whore Retired Staff SN95 Supporter

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    That's a good point.

    Basically I think it depends on how much power you want to get from your combo.
     
  16. DropTopPony

    DropTopPony Administrator Staff Member Admin SN95 Supporter

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    KB had a blower ready for 2V in 96 or 97....SVO/FRPP intake has been out since like 97/98. Both bolt to NPI heads.
     
  17. Adam

    Adam Member

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    Let me re-iterate...parts that are worth bolting to your motor. The FRPP intake is the BIGGEST POS for the money I think ever made! I am not aware of a quality KB being availible for a 4.6 2V 96 or 97. The models they sell for the 96-98 now, just became availible. But I will check with Kenne Bell.
     
  18. Blueoval

    Blueoval New Member

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    I met Johnny about 2-3 years ago and I will be the first one to admit that he is a great source for knowledge on the early 4.6 motors. Because of that fact I have always wanted to show the PI swapped guys that you can put down great power out of the non-PI motors in the same circumstances. What I mean is that a non-PI motor that has 10.5:1 compression, ported non-PI heads, aftermarket cams (I am running SHM 2730's) and either the PI intake or SVO Intake (which I just got a great deal on) will make just about the same power as a PI swapped car. As soon as the buildup is finished for my car I will make sure that I post numbers for everyone. The goal is 300+ N/A on a little non-PI setup that isn't going to cost a fortune. The shortblock is going to be still using hypereuthetic pistons & rods just not from a stang to give me the compression that I need, stock GT crank & block, P&P'd headwork done by me, the same 2730's that I am running now (only 500 lift), and a ported SVO intake with the normal bolt-ons. If you don't think it is possible take a look at my sig and see where I am at right now with a tired old stock longblock with a PI intake & SHM 2730 cams. JMHO!
     
  19. Adam

    Adam Member

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    The debate could go on forever. It is just a matter of what you want to do or prove. I made 243/269 untuned after my headswap with VT Stage 1 cams, this is through a 125,000(at that time) 4R70W. I easily eclipsed 260/285 with this exact same set up after I added longtubes. HP numbers don't mean much to me anyway. This set up has now run 12.61 with 132,000miles on it (don't forget, this is an automatic). If I wanted to keep throwing money at it, it could make even more(easy 12.50's). Its started getting expensive so I stopped.... :) I think your aspirations are admirable. To each their own.

    Adam 8)
     
  20. S281 #39B

    S281 #39B Member

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    4.6 Cylinder Head Flow Data
    (Courtesy of Livernois Motorsports)
    Stock
    Lift in Inches '96 '01
    .100 46 54
    .150 66.6 78
    .200 84.5 98
    .250 103.5 119
    .300 121.3 135
    .350 134.7 145
    .400 147 156
    .450 159.4 161
    .500 170 166
    .550 176 168