Whats the most restrictivest part on our Non-PIed motors??

[voidfinger]

NPI heads are complete crap...

No they aren't...go back to the section you belong in and don't post about stuff you know nothing about.

Dang man, little harsh huh? They arn't complete crap, with work they can flow and flow decently well. But then find an intake that fits up "RIGHT" and you have a good flowing combo. But the problem is in "Stock Form" What greg said is true. I even think PI heads are crap and they make "some say" 10hp more than the npi's. I'm not talking trash about them, since i have them now, but i'm just stateing the obvious "in stock form the heads are not the best and are close to the bottom of the pole in flow numbers". uttahere:

yes... They are crap...

On just about every American smallblock / modular block... heads are the most restrictive part...

96 was the first year ford used the 281 in the mustang... It made the same HP but less TQ then the 5.0s...

In 99 ford put in the PI heads which made a huge difference...

If you like the the stock NPI heads and think that they are great then fine... but I disagree...

Sorry but the heads are not the restriction in the 96-98 intake tract... but those of you with no actual experience with 2V's only know what you read and most of what you read is false.
The NPI heads flow as good or better then the PI on the Intake side but fall behind on the exhaust which is easily corrected.
In 99 Ford did more then put on new heads they put on new Intake/Cams/and bigger valves and higher lift springs...do the same to the NPI and they are the equivalent to PI without the raised compression.

Well Bob, i understand where your coming from and i understand that the heads decent on the intake side, but why would we have to work on the heads to make them flow around that of a PI head if we can just get the pi head. I know you know alot of these engines and trust me, i'm no noob when it comes to the 2v stuff either. I've been wrenching on mine since 98 and i've learned a thing or two.

I'm not arguing with you about the major restrictions in the track either, i know that the two biggest ones is the intake and the cams. The heads come in second to those two.

One thing i do not understand though , is that fact that the npi flow like you said the same if not better on the intake side. I just don't see how they can since the port is 1/2 the size of the pi port. its bairly big enough to stick my thumb in. , who knows.

 

[Thomas_W]

NPI heads are complete crap...

No they aren't...go back to the section you belong in and don't post about stuff you know nothing about.

Dang man, little harsh huh? They arn't complete crap, with work they can flow and flow decently well. But then find an intake that fits up "RIGHT" and you have a good flowing combo. But the problem is in "Stock Form" What greg said is true. I even think PI heads are crap and they make "some say" 10hp more than the npi's. I'm not talking trash about them, since i have them now, but i'm just stateing the obvious "in stock form the heads are not the best and are close to the bottom of the pole in flow numbers". uttahere:

yes... They are crap...

On just about every American smallblock / modular block... heads are the most restrictive part...

96 was the first year ford used the 281 in the mustang... It made the same HP but less TQ then the 5.0s...

In 99 ford put in the PI heads which made a huge difference...

If you like the the stock NPI heads and think that they are great then fine... but I disagree...

Sorry but the heads are not the restriction in the 96-98 intake tract... but those of you with no actual experience with 2V's only know what you read and most of what you read is false.
The NPI heads flow as good or better then the PI on the Intake side but fall behind on the exhaust which is easily corrected.
In 99 Ford did more then put on new heads they put on new Intake/Cams/and bigger valves and higher lift springs...do the same to the NPI and they are the equivalent to PI without the raised compression.

Well Bob, i understand where your coming from and i understand that the heads decent on the intake side, but why would we have to work on the heads to make them flow around that of a PI head if we can just get the pi head. I know you know alot of these engines and trust me, i'm no noob when it comes to the 2v stuff either. I've been wrenching on mine since 98 and i've learned a thing or two.

I'm not arguing with you about the major restrictions in the track either, i know that the two biggest ones is the intake and the cams. The heads come in second to those two.

One thing i do not understand though , is that fact that the npi flow like you said the same if not better on the intake side. I just don't see how they can since the port is 1/2 the size of the pi port. its bairly big enough to stick my thumb in. , who knows.

flow just isn't about port size.. If you can keep the velocity of the airflow thru the head you can flow more thru a smaller port. Granted there's alot more to head port work than that.. thats a fairly simple answer.

I'm going to start searching thru my pages and books full of 2v stuff and see if i can't find the stock flow rates for the PI vs. NPI heads

 

[Dalamar]

Arn't the SVO heads the best flowing?



It would be nice to see the actual results from modifying the NPI's and how much it costs.
I always hear about it, but no one posts up real info.

 

[Thomas_W]

the SVO heads are the best flowing 2v heads..

 

[voidfinger]

no comparison between the svo's and the other heads, wish they weren't so much though.

 

[97blackgt]

what would be the difference in flow/ power on an almost stock car between ported NPI and stock PI heads?

 

[Thomas_W]

what would be the difference in flow/ power on an almost stock car between ported NPI and stock PI heads?

probably not much if your still using the stock NPI cams and intake

 

[Outlaw97GT]

NPI heads are complete crap...

No they aren't...go back to the section you belong in and don't post about stuff you know nothing about.

Dang man, little harsh huh? They arn't complete crap, with work they can flow and flow decently well. But then find an intake that fits up "RIGHT" and you have a good flowing combo. But the problem is in "Stock Form" What greg said is true. I even think PI heads are crap and they make "some say" 10hp more than the npi's. I'm not talking trash about them, since i have them now, but i'm just stateing the obvious "in stock form the heads are not the best and are close to the bottom of the pole in flow numbers". uttahere:

yes... They are crap...

On just about every American smallblock / modular block... heads are the most restrictive part...

96 was the first year ford used the 281 in the mustang... It made the same HP but less TQ then the 5.0s...

In 99 ford put in the PI heads which made a huge difference...

If you like the the stock NPI heads and think that they are great then fine... but I disagree...

Sorry but the heads are not the restriction in the 96-98 intake tract... but those of you with no actual experience with 2V's only know what you read and most of what you read is false.
The NPI heads flow as good or better then the PI on the Intake side but fall behind on the exhaust which is easily corrected.
In 99 Ford did more then put on new heads they put on new Intake/Cams/and bigger valves and higher lift springs...do the same to the NPI and they are the equivalent to PI without the raised compression.

Well Bob, i understand where your coming from and i understand that the heads decent on the intake side, but why would we have to work on the heads to make them flow around that of a PI head if we can just get the pi head. I know you know alot of these engines and trust me, i'm no noob when it comes to the 2v stuff either. I've been wrenching on mine since 98 and i've learned a thing or two.

I'm not arguing with you about the major restrictions in the track either, i know that the two biggest ones is the intake and the cams. The heads come in second to those two.

One thing i do not understand though , is that fact that the npi flow like you said the same if not better on the intake side. I just don't see how they can since the port is 1/2 the size of the pi port. its bairly big enough to stick my thumb in. , who knows.

flow just isn't about port size.. If you can keep the velocity of the airflow thru the head you can flow more thru a smaller port. Granted there's alot more to head port work than that.. thats a fairly simple answer.

I'm going to start searching thru my pages and books full of 2v stuff and see if i can't find the stock flow rates for the PI vs. NPI heads

Here is a link with some great info.... O0
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/YVS450/tech/tech.htm

 

[DropTopPony]

Arn't the SVO heads the best flowing?



It would be nice to see the actual results from modifying the NPI's and how much it costs.
I always hear about it, but no one posts up real info.

There was just some flow #'s posted here from a set of mildly ported NPI's from Steen last week.
And i have seen flow charts on other forums from Renegade Racing ported NPI's that were 230cfm intake and 205cfm exhaust. Cost for a set of Renegade Ported NPI's is about the same as VT st 2's depending on which Valves/Guides/Retainers etc that you go with and if you want the Spring Perches machined to run high lift spring/cam combos.
I was talking with Renegade about buying a set of NPI's when i came across my VT st2 PI's for a great price thats why i don't have P&P'd NPI's.

 

[DropTopPony]

NPI heads are complete crap...

No they aren't...go back to the section you belong in and don't post about stuff you know nothing about.

Dang man, little harsh huh? They arn't complete crap, with work they can flow and flow decently well. But then find an intake that fits up "RIGHT" and you have a good flowing combo. But the problem is in "Stock Form" What greg said is true. I even think PI heads are crap and they make "some say" 10hp more than the npi's. I'm not talking trash about them, since i have them now, but i'm just stateing the obvious "in stock form the heads are not the best and are close to the bottom of the pole in flow numbers". uttahere:

yes... They are crap...

On just about every American smallblock / modular block... heads are the most restrictive part...

96 was the first year ford used the 281 in the mustang... It made the same HP but less TQ then the 5.0s...

In 99 ford put in the PI heads which made a huge difference...

If you like the the stock NPI heads and think that they are great then fine... but I disagree...

Sorry but the heads are not the restriction in the 96-98 intake tract... but those of you with no actual experience with 2V's only know what you read and most of what you read is false.
The NPI heads flow as good or better then the PI on the Intake side but fall behind on the exhaust which is easily corrected.
In 99 Ford did more then put on new heads they put on new Intake/Cams/and bigger valves and higher lift springs...do the same to the NPI and they are the equivalent to PI without the raised compression.

Well Bob, i understand where your coming from and i understand that the heads decent on the intake side, but why would we have to work on the heads to make them flow around that of a PI head if we can just get the pi head. I know you know alot of these engines and trust me, i'm no noob when it comes to the 2v stuff either. I've been wrenching on mine since 98 and i've learned a thing or two.

I'm not arguing with you about the major restrictions in the track either, i know that the two biggest ones is the intake and the cams. The heads come in second to those two.

One thing i do not understand though , is that fact that the npi flow like you said the same if not better on the intake side. I just don't see how they can since the port is 1/2 the size of the pi port. its bairly big enough to stick my thumb in. , who knows.

flow just isn't about port size.. If you can keep the velocity of the airflow thru the head you can flow more thru a smaller port. Granted there's alot more to head port work than that.. thats a fairly simple answer.

I'm going to start searching thru my pages and books full of 2v stuff and see if i can't find the stock flow rates for the PI vs. NPI heads

Thats exactly correct but everyone is fixated on just flow #'s alone where velocity is a major contributor to head flow. Thats why i only suggest a small few to buy 2V heads from...alot just hog them out with a C&C program then sell them where others will do it to maximize flow & velocity.

 

[Adam]

my mistake.. my buddy got a 55rwhp gain on a set of ported nonPI heads after swapping to the pI cams and intake...

And even your numbers, 20-30 for cams/intake and 40 for the full swap, why waste the extra $1000 or so for a set of heads when they are only worth 10rwhp. And then if you decide to put a blower/turbo on later your limited on the boost b/c of the higher compression ratio. Doesn't make much sense to me.

And why if the stock manifolds are so much of a restriction do you only gain about 0-5rwhp w/ a set of shorty headers... If they were such a restriction i'd think i'd see more than 5hp. Have you ever seen a set of FRPP shorties? they are nothing more than a tubular version of the stock cast iron manifolds...

Well I'll bet he did get 55rwhp after putting on PORTED NPI heads and PIcams/intake. I bought my heads/intake for $500 shipped, then I sold the PI cams that were in the heads for $125, so I had $375 in the full swap plus gaskets. As for putting on a blower....you can still use forced induction at that kind of compression ratio if you know how to tune. Its not a big deal. Yes, I owned a set of FRPP shorties. I don't talk about shit I haven't done. I honestly could care less if anyone runs NPI or PI, if it runs at the track thats all that matters.

 

[voidfinger]

my mistake.. my buddy got a 55rwhp gain on a set of ported nonPI heads after swapping to the pI cams and intake...

And even your numbers, 20-30 for cams/intake and 40 for the full swap, why waste the extra $1000 or so for a set of heads when they are only worth 10rwhp. And then if you decide to put a blower/turbo on later your limited on the boost b/c of the higher compression ratio. Doesn't make much sense to me.

And why if the stock manifolds are so much of a restriction do you only gain about 0-5rwhp w/ a set of shorty headers... If they were such a restriction i'd think i'd see more than 5hp. Have you ever seen a set of FRPP shorties? they are nothing more than a tubular version of the stock cast iron manifolds...

Well I'll bet he did get 55rwhp after putting on PORTED NPI heads and PIcams/intake. I bought my heads/intake for $500 shipped, then I sold the PI cams that were in the heads for $125, so I had $375 in the full swap plus gaskets. As for putting on a blower....you can still use forced induction at that kind of compression ratio if you know how to tune. Its not a big deal. Yes, I owned a set of FRPP shorties. I don't talk about shit I haven't done. I honestly could care less if anyone runs NPI or PI, if it runs at the track thats all that matters.

Wow, you sold them for 125, where you sell them at ? i need to do that.

 

[Adam]

That was 3 years ago. Now they are going for cheaper..I have a set right now that I can't sell. 03 GT cams trying to get $125 SHIPPED and can't....rediculous.

 

[voidfinger]

yea, i got mine for 50 shipped O0