Arguments about N/A vs. Boost

[Ferocious]

Alot of people set their expectations to hitting 300HP n/a. Now i don't immediately want all that power, so i'm gonna aim for around 280rwhp on NPI heads.
I need a bit of options and opinions on how to get there however.

My car currently has the following:
- Cold air intake
- Off road x-pipe
- Slp loudmouth 1's
- Bosch 8mm wires & NGK spark plugs

Here's what i plan on getting in the near future to reach my goal:
- Ram air intake
- PI intake w/aluminum crossover
- 70mm tb and plenum combo
- Underdrive pulleys
- 4:10 gears (for the auto)
- Tune

Regarding cams:
My main concern is what kind of cams I should go with. I was thinking about just getting the PI romeo cams, but what other available cams can i run to hit around 280rwhp?
Keep in mind this is my only car & my daily driver. I need to be able to swap out the intake/cams in about a day and can't have the car not running for too long.
I may be able to run a mild street cam, but i must run 87 fuel. I do not want to upgrade to 91 or 93.

My question is this:
Is there a mild street cam that i should be looking at?
How close to 280 would the combination of parts place me at?

 

[MadStang]

you need PI heads dude, it'll be very difficult getting 280whp out of NPI heads.

 

[the.greg]

Man, even pi cars have trouble hitting 280 n/a. Your gonna need a good cam for sure, Id look at bullet's line specifically for npi headed cars. For a cai, Id say a JLT is best, but the move to a rai isn't gonna do anything for more power. If your set on 280, Id think longtubes are a must too and your tune would probly have to be a custom one for 91+ octane. Good luck. And honestly with all that, I dont think you will get too close to 280 without porting the heads.
http://www.modularheadshop.com/Cams.htm#2V_MODULAR_CAMSHAFTS

 

[Ferocious]

If i were to get Pi heads or even port them, I would be spending too much money in my opinion. At the price of everything i listed, making the switch to l/ts and redoing the exhaust, plus the added cost of the heads, I might as well buy a cheap turbo like the on3 performance or get a used vortech kit. I'm pretty sure i'd be at least at 300 with just a PI intake swap.

Even hitting 260 n/a would satisfy me for the time being. The labor is my main restriction since i have no other means of transportation.

 

[MadStang]

If i were to get Pi heads or even port them, I would be spending too much money in my opinion. At the price of everything i listed, making the switch to l/ts and redoing the exhaust, plus the added cost of the heads, I might as well buy a cheap turbo like the on3 performance or get a used vortech kit. I'm pretty sure i'd be at least at 300 with just a PI intake swap.

Even hitting 260 n/a would satisfy me for the time being. The labor is my main restriction since i have no other means of transportation.

Trust me dude it's more difficult than you think.

I have a 5.0 stroker, HP292 cams, jlt RAI, Roush 75mm tb, accufab plenum, full exhaust minus headers and I'm only at 272rwhp...

all of which are top of the line most gains as you know...

you can find a set of PI heads in the JY for less than $100. then $200 to freshen them up....

 

[the.greg]

It really does come down to how much $ you can spend on it. n/a is gonna cost more than boost. Especially if you can't install stuff like heads or cams yourself, (I cant do either). If you just want a better feeling car, some 4.10 gears and a pi intake will help your npi feel much stronger, then perhaps save up for the power you want. Maybe you can afford to find a pi motor cheap somewhere like a pick n pull, and swap the whole thing in. It will be a better platform in the long-run for boost or n/a.

 

[Musturd]

Yea good luck on the 280 with npi my old 2v made 289rwhp with a pi swap and comp 270's accufab tb and plenum long tubes blah blah.. High compression is the only way to go IMO

 

[Ferocious]

Trust me dude it's more difficult than you think.
I have a 5.0 stroker, HP292 cams, jlt RAI, Roush 75mm tb, accufab plenum, full exhaust minus headers and I'm only at 272rwhp...
all of which are top of the line most gains as you know...
you can find a set of PI heads in the JY for less than $100. then $200 to freshen them up....

Now that i look back at it, for the added costs of what i listed, i could probably manage to find a used PI engine in the junkyards. Swapping an entire engine out quickly is my big concern though. I'm definitely gonna do an intake swap during summer to give her a little boost in power. The cams i should do at the same time, but i'm not set on tearing down the heads and doing them too... would getting them ported or just swapping them out for a set of PI's be a long task? Around how long does that usually take?

It really does come down to how much $ you can spend on it. n/a is gonna cost more than boost. Especially if you can't install stuff like heads or cams yourself, (I cant do either). If you just want a better feeling car, some 4.10 gears and a pi intake will help your npi feel much stronger, then perhaps save up for the power you want. Maybe you can afford to find a pi motor cheap somewhere like a pick n pull, and swap the whole thing in. It will be a better platform in the long-run for boost or n/a.

I'm looking to spend around $1500-3000. I'm probably going to keep this car around for college, so that gives me about 2-3 years.
The 4:10 gears & intake will be done in the summer. I enjoy driving my car right now, as stock as it is lol, but i wouldn't mind having the extra power as long as it doesnt cost me an arm and a leg.

Yea good luck on the 280 with npi my old 2v made 289rwhp with a pi swap and comp 270's accufab tb and plenum long tubes blah blah.. High compression is the only way to go IMO

I don't believe 280 is pushing it. Hell 260 and i'd be happy. This just make me hate the NPI's even more since they suck at laying down the power i want.
As nice as my car looks to me, the engine needs some serious work.

 

[vermilion]

Without a long drawn out backstory and all that mess, good luck with a npi. Compression and rev.

 

[justinschmidt1]

Why do people try to make power with NA 4.6 2vs?


Boost the damn thing. Even with a basic non intercooled vortech kit and the stock pulley you will make far more power than your NA 2v

 

[MadStang]

Now that i look back at it, for the added costs of what i listed, i could probably manage to find a used PI engine in the junkyards. Swapping an entire engine out quickly is my big concern though. I'm definitely gonna do an intake swap during summer to give her a little boost in power. The cams i should do at the same time, but i'm not set on tearing down the heads and doing them too... would getting them ported or just swapping them out for a set of PI's be a long task? Around how long does that usually take?




I'm looking to spend around $1500-3000. I'm probably going to keep this car around for college, so that gives me about 2-3 years.
The 4:10 gears & intake will be done in the summer. I enjoy driving my car right now, as stock as it is lol, but i wouldn't mind having the extra power as long as it doesnt cost me an arm and a leg.



I don't believe 280 is pushing it. Hell 260 and i'd be happy. This just make me hate the NPI's even more since they suck at laying down the power i want.
As nice as my car looks to me, the engine needs some serious work.

if you want the port work done well it will take a long time.

I would just get a set of stock pi's from the JY, and you can refresh the heads with new guides, etc. and bring it on up here and me and buddy Jason would have it done in an afternoon.

 

[Musturd]

Find a mark 8 motor and put pi heads on it.. You will make well over 300hp with stock cams .. Learned this from a fellow 2v guy on here o

 

[MadStang]

Why do people try to make power with NA 4.6 2vs?


Boost the damn thing. Even with a basic non intercooled vortech kit and the stock pulley you will make far more power than your NA 2v

One thing I've always been told with motors is the only true way to understand how to make power with an engine is to do it naturally aspirated first, does it cost more? sure but I'd rather understand my motor than just throw boost at it because as everyone knows... Boost just overshadows an engine's deficiency...

 

[mygreengt]

One thing I've always been told with motors is the only true way to understand how to make power with an engine is to do it naturally aspirated first, does it cost more? sure but I'd rather understand my motor than just throw boost at it because as everyone knows... Boost just overshadows an engine's deficiency...

thats in Duffy's sig

 

[the.greg]

You said your looking to spend 1500-3000. I dont think you can get to 260-280 n/a on that budget. Maybe start piecing together a used s/c kit or even nos. But even if you went s/c the npi is still gonna rob your potential power. Are you set on n/a or what?

 

[MadStang]

thats in Duffy's sig

lol, yes it was quoted by al papitto and that's the best way to put it... from the modular master himself.

 

[MadStang]

You said your looking to spend 1500-3000. I dont think you can get to 260-280 n/a on that budget. Maybe start piecing together a used s/c kit or even nos. But even if you went s/c the npi is still gonna rob your potential power. Are you set on n/a or what?

he could easily get there.

$900 for MHS PI stock mod heads
$450 for HP292S cams (like mine)
$100 for PI Intake
$150 JLT RAI
$100 Plenum
$75 TB
$500 MAC LT's
$400 Dyno Tune
$300 gasketry + misc bolts and fluids
==
$2975 total

and this for all brand new parts....

 

[Ferocious]

Why do people try to make power with NA 4.6 2vs?
Boost the damn thing. Even with a basic non intercooled vortech kit and the stock pulley you will make far more power than your NA 2v

At the moment, that seems like the more logical and simplest for me. A PI intake and some boost and around what numbers should i be seeing?

Find a mark 8 motor and put pi heads on it.. You will make well over 300hp with stock cams .. Learned this from a fellow 2v guy on here o

I don't have the time to do an motor swap on this car. I'm almost positive an engine swap is out of the picture

if you want the port work done well it will take a long time.
I would just get a set of stock pi's from the JY, and you can refresh the heads with new guides, etc. and bring it on up here and me and buddy Jason would have it done in an afternoon.

One thing I've always been told with motors is the only true way to understand how to make power with an engine is to do it naturally aspirated first, does it cost more? sure but I'd rather understand my motor than just throw boost at it because as everyone knows... Boost just overshadows an engine's deficiency...

At my age, boost seems easier though. It just seems much more simpler to bolt on a turbo, tune it, maybe upgrade my injectors, and call it done.
I feel like with the limited experience and knowledge I have on motors, I'd be better off building a strong, reliable n/a engine when i have more experience, money, and time.

Boost seems like a simple way to have more fun with my car, and that's all i'm really aiming for right now. At first i considered going n/a because it seemed cheaper, but it appears i'm wrong..

 

[MadStang]

At the moment, that seems like the more logical and simplest for me. A PI intake and some boost and around what numbers should i be seeing?



I don't have the time to do an motor swap on this car. I'm almost positive an engine swap is out of the picture





At my age, boost seems easier though. It just seems much more simpler to bolt on a turbo, tune it, maybe upgrade my injectors, and call it done.
I feel like with the limited experience and knowledge I have on motors, I'd be better off building a strong, reliable n/a engine when i have more experience, money, and time.

Boost seems like a simple way to have more fun with my car, and that's all i'm really aiming for right now. At first i considered going n/a because it seemed cheaper, but it appears i'm wrong..

n/a is definitely more expensive but more rewarding when done right imo. boost is definitely the easy way out if you're looking for cheap adrenaline.

 

[Ferocious]

You said your looking to spend 1500-3000. I dont think you can get to 260-280 n/a on that budget. Maybe start piecing together a used s/c kit or even nos. But even if you went s/c the npi is still gonna rob your potential power. Are you set on n/a or what?

Nope, i'm not set on n/a at all. I'm open to all options right now.
And $1500-3000 is a rough estimate on how much I should have by the end of summer or by the time i start college depending on whether i get a job.
At my age though, the cheaper the better. Later on when i have more $$ i can look towards building a great motor, but not yet..