Need some new shocks/struts and springs

[MeanGrn Gt]

Well i want to do some suspension work. I want new springs and shocks/struts. It already had bbk gripp springs when i bought it but it has stock struts/shocks. The ride is kinda crappy (i was just gonna replace the shocks/stuts but figure might as well do it all and be happier)and the stance aint that great.

I dont want it to be slammed and leveled i want a nice little drop with a very aggressive stance (rake!!) , i dont want to scrape on everything and i dont wanna break the bank. My plans went from finding a used sc to getting a n2o setup, suspension work and possibly wheels. I am planning on moving and going to school so a lot of stuff is up in the air so that is y i am waiting on sc.

So i was thinking of going with maybe frpp c springs and strange 10 ways but then i heard they are noisey and defintately dont want that. I checked through the database thread and it is hard to decide due to different angles etc. Sometimes it looks like certain springs have a nice rake then i see where they are level or worse yet the front is higher. Now i see the bullitt kit which is 430 or so plus u get new front and rear sway bars (not really important but a nice bonus). I have also found used tockico illumina adj struts/shocks for a foxbody for 250 (540 new) which would be a good deal plus adjustment would be nice. I already have mm c/c plates on the car and eventually i plan on getting adj lca's (if i keep the car down the road etc). i want to run all the isos also

So what do you guys think? Does the bullitt kit give a nice rake and everything else or am i better off with other springs and the used tokico illuminas? thanks guys

 

[ReplicaR]

What suspension are you planning on building? Is drag racing your intent or do you want to do a road course capable car?

 

[Red96GT]

I'm not sure about the C springs but H & R Supersports with no front ISO's but both back ISO's has given me exactly what I think you're looking for. Slight rake and LOW. I don't scrape on everything but close to it. That's the only problem. I'd post a picture but I haven't put my 03 Koby's on there since taken the front ISO's out and the offset of the stock wheels make it look like there is bigger tire/fender gap than there really is.

 

[MeanGrn Gt]

Its just my dd and i would do more dragging than road racing for sure. I am not looking for an all out suspension, it is my dd that i will occasionally take to the track. I want a nice ride that handles decent. other than this i plan on getting adj lcas, subframes and cobra front control arms at a later date (pry a year depends on a lot of things).

h&r ss's would be a little lower than i would like i think, i dont want to worry about scrapping on everything etc. If i went with h&r it would be the sports. Definately dont wanna lower more than 1 1/2 i think.

edit i just realized the springs i was originally thinking of are frpp b's not c's. i think a progressive spring would be a little better.

 

[ReplicaR]

If you want handling, than you can not go any lower than an inch and a quarter for drop. Stock geometry mustang suspension does not allow for any more. You will get subterranean front roll center, which will cause the car to understeer, and the rear will be getting too close to the bind of the quadralink suspension. At this point you are left with two choices really:

1. You can either get Ford C springs, which only drop your car about an inch or so, maybe even less. The spring rate is kinda meh in my opinion (I run H&R Race on my car), but they will be OEM comfortable while still being able to take some corners fast. These springs should give you that rake you're looking for. Ultimately, they are cheap as hell.

2. Choice two is a bit more hardcore, but it will pay off every time you drive the car hard into the corner or at the track. H&R Race springs are recommended by just about anyone who does corners on budget, and you will never find them for sale used, because who ever buys them, loves them so much that they keep them for as long as they can. H&R is a real quality spring that will not sag over age. I had them in just about every project car I've built so far, and my mustang is not an exception. The drop is very minimal to maintain the suspension geometry, but you will not get rake look with them. The car will sit even at best, and if you have aluminum heads front will be a bit higher. The springs actually to my surprise make a very supple ride for something that handles great at the track. I could not be happier with them.

Shocks: There is no excuse for you not to buy quality shocks for the car. Save up, eat top ramen for breakfast, cut corners somewhere else, but do not overlook the shocks. You are dropping the car, and going to higher spring rate, so you need something to be able to valve all that extra suspension work. I decided to go with Koni Sport SA (Single Adjustable) shocks for my car. The way I saw it, some adjustability is better than no adjustability. Also when Konis are set at full soft, the car rides pretty nice for how much of a spring rate there is in it, and if you feel like doing some spirited driving, all you have to do is turn the knob (one full turn worked great for me at the track).

 

[Red96GT]

You will get subterranean front roll center, which will cause the car to understeer, and the rear will be getting too close to the bind of the quadralink suspension.

Could you elaborate a bit more for me on the subterranean front roll center and binding of the quadralink suspension. I've heard from others that dropping a car too low actually hurts handling and I think this is what they were referring too.

 

[ReplicaR]

Everything has to do with the way suspension was built and designed. When you calculate the front roll center, you're supposed to draw a line through the lower control arm, upper control arm (or top mount in case of mcpherson strut type), and extend the lines till they meet. Then after you're done with that, you draw the line from there those two lines met to the center of the tire. Then you draw a line through the center of the car, and the point where the line from the tire meets the center is the front roll center. As a universal rule, the optimum height for front roll center is 0-1 inch off the ground. Anything below that will produce understeer. Now that I covered all the boring stuff, here is the breakdown for mustang.

Mustang from factory has low mounting points for suspension pieces. When lowered anything more than an inch or so you end up with control arm angle, where ball joint sits higher than the control arm mount point on the K-member. This will produce severely low front roll center, which will not lead to anything good. Onto the rear. Mustang came equipped with quadralink rear suspension, which opposed angle upper control arms to control both side to side movement of the axle and keep the axle from rotating then acceleration is applied. When the rear suspension is compressed in one direction, and because of it's positioning of the upper control arms, it will start to rotate itself, as if you had rear wheel steering. Unlike rear wheel steering on the expensive cars like 300ZX and others of it's kind, it happens very unpredictably and when you least expect it. When you drop the car over one inch in the back, you bring it that much closer to the bind that you want to avoid.

Hope that helps. If you want to know more about this kind of stuff, I highly recommend this book. "Chassis Engineering" by Herb Adams. Very easy to read, very easy to understand, and you will walk away with a lot of knowledge about every kind of suspension, not just mustangs. Here is a link.

http://product.half.ebay.com/Chassi...h-Performance-Handling_W0QQprZ650345QQtgZinfo

 

[MeanGrn Gt]

I would see the race springs being a good setup if i was more of a race car compared to a dd. i think the 850-950lb front springs would be a little stiff compared to 425-530 lb b springs etc. this is my dd so i am leaning more towards look/stance and drivability so i think the frpp b springs would be best fit. I am not trying to cut corners i am trying to put together a good setup that i can get a deal on. i will be moving soon, going to school 7 1/2+ hours a day and working as much as i can to make ends meet and i want to do a lot of various things to the car now (suspension, engine, appearance, drivetrain)so i am making a plan that i will be happy with.

The reason i was looking into the bullitt kit is the fact that i get sway bars added to the package for the same price as other shock/strut and spring setups. I am curious as too how much the sway bars affect the handling/performance of the car and how close the bullitt springs are to frpp b springs mainly.

So right now i am thinking of going with b springs (if they give me the rake i am looking for) and pick up the used illumina adjustable shocks/struts or the bullitt kit w/ springs (supposedly close to c springs i believe)tokico shocks/struts and front/rear sway bars.

:dunno:

 

[Red96GT]

good info ReplicaR

 

[ReplicaR]

Honestly the name is very misleading. It works great at the track but it is still very supple for the spring rate you are getting. But if you can't valve that much spring rate, there is no point of getting in in the first place. I have read what you have to say about your situation, and I can totally relate. I'm a full time uninversity student with two part time jobs. I know what it's like to have no mod money at all.

B springs are barely an improvement over stock spring rate. You go from 450 linear stock to 425/530 progressive, car is gonna handle like it did stock, which is leaning on it's door handles. Here is a picture of my car on stock suspension for reference.

As you roll, the car gains positive camber, and you understeer worse and worse by the second. Buying used shocks is always a gamble. Shocks do go bad, so that's something I would avoid as well, unless you are planning on revalving them right after you get them.

Now, your second option seems a lot better to me. FRPP kit uses C springs I think, which is a 600 linear. It will not be uncomforable, and it will corner much better than stock. Shocks are dialed in specifically to handle that kind of spring rate, plus the load you're gonna get from stiffer sway bars. The swaybars themselves are not much stiffer at all. I think front swaybar is changed to a 28mm tubular from a 26.5 solid, so they are probably just as stiff as each other. If you can get a Bullitt Kit with out sway bars, that would be your best option by far.

This is what I found on Mustang Performance Parts. They have a FRPP kit for 459 dollars plus shipping. The kit includes springs, swaybars, and shocks, so it's a complete kit. Honestly speaking, before I went with Koni/H&R on my car, I was going to get the FRPP kit. It's a great kit for the street, and it will keep you planted at the track. Link is below. Search for "Ford Racing Performance Suspension Handling Kit", it's almost at the top.

http://www.performancepartsinc.com/suspension.htm

 

[SRT Handz]

Willow Springs FTMFW

 

[ReplicaR]

You better believe it :dancing6: I've ran Big Willow just last weekend. Best lap time was 1:43, on street tire (275 Avon Tech M500) with shocks and springs and exhaust. Everything else is either stock or does not affect the track peformance. I've done SOW several times and Horse Thief Mile once, that thing is fucking nuts. I run with Speed Trial USA, and we are doing SOW event in May. You should come.

 

[MeanGrn Gt]

ya im thinking of getting the bullitt kit. boi has it for 449. ima check with stangsuspension and see if i can get a deal on it maybe. unless i see the stance and i dont like it or if anyone has bad feedback or a better deal thats what i will pry get. thanks

 

[SRT Handz]

You better believe it :dancing6: I've ran Big Willow just last weekend. Best lap time was 1:43, on street tire (275 Avon Tech M500) with shocks and springs and exhaust. Everything else is either stock or does not affect the track peformance. I've done SOW several times and Horse Thief Mile once, that thing is ******* nuts. I run with Speed Trial USA, and we are doing SOW event in May. You should come.

how much is the May Track day.

...i usually sneak in with the Pantera or Shelby Club and they only charge $100.

...i am down, i am always looking for stang to go to willow with :boink:

 

[ReplicaR]

For SOW event, STUSA usually charges 120 a day, which is pretty cheap. Check with the website regularly, I think the registration will be opened in a little bit, maybe a month or so. Site again is www.speedtrialusa.com

 

[MeanGrn Gt]

well i have spent most of the day looking through info on everything. I dont think im gonna get the bullitt kit. its a good deal but i dont think id be happy with the stance. the front is too high, i could cut them a little or put in x2 balljoints to get another 1/2" drop but that is another $100+. so now i think ill get c springs (maybe b's instead still undecided since its a dd and i want a smooth ride mainly)and tokico blues. the springs are like 130 and i found the shocks/struts for 230. pretty good setup for 360. i am watching some konis to see what they go for but i expect them to jump or not even meet the reserve. i almost decided to keep the bbks and get the blues and then put the rest of the money towards adj lcas or but i think id be happier with new springs. i looked at some pics (its below 0 my ass is staying inside lol) and i just dont like the level/front is a hair higher possibly. also thought of getting shocks and balljoints but the balljoints are just as much as the springs lol

So within the next 2 days ill make my final decision and get everything put in asap! most likely frpp c or b's with tokico blues. then save up for some juice