Procharger for a 1994 GT

Discussion in 'Road Racing' started by B.mad, Feb 26, 2015.

  1. B.mad

    B.mad Well-Known Member Preferred Vendor

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal
    Ok so i want to build a road racer and stick a procharger on it. But from what someone told me the procharger will make the car run hot and will overheat during 20-30 min sessions. The kit i was looking at was the procharger D1SC with the 3 core air to air intercooler. Any body running that on a road racer? How is it doing? if not, then help me out? So a little background of what i want

    331 stroker
    9.5:1 CR
    AFR 195 heads
    FTI cam
    holleysystemax intake
    60lb injectors
    forged internals obviously
    stock block looking to push 500 to the wheels
    oil cooler kit
    aftermarket radiator and fans
    and the procharger. I am missing some parts, but thats the brake down.

    what would be better, vortec with a liquid to air intercooler? air to air? both liquid to air and air to air?
     
  2. kb1982

    kb1982 Active Member

    Messages:
    591
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2013
    Location:
    Kentucky
    I dont have any experience with procharger, but I do have a vortech v2 si on my car. As for underhood temps, they will increase with a supercharger. As far as causing overheating problems, I believe if your radiator, fan, and waterpump are in good working order you should be fine. I have a fluidyne radiator in my car, but I dont road race either. I use an air to air intercooler, and the inlet air temps are hotter while the car is sitting and idling than they would be while making boost going down the road. Once airflow gets going through the intercooler, they come right down. I would suggest a bypass valve that is adjustable though, that way you can adjust it to close sooner than full wide open throttle and start boosting earlier.
     
  3. ttocs

    ttocs Legend

    Messages:
    25,459
    Likes Received:
    2,479
    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Location:
    Evansville Indiana
    Its I think if it were that much of an issue it would be well enough known by all like the KB/roots stuff has


    The only bad part about the design that I don't like is the air filter in the back of the engine bay above the headers. But it does have an intercooler to help this, you can also consider a meth kit. I thought I saw someone hat took a 90 degree boot and took it out into the fender once but its been a while.

    But vortech and Paxton are on sale this month at jegs.
     
  4. B.mad

    B.mad Well-Known Member Preferred Vendor

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal
    My car currently has 0 overheating issues, no matter the time of day, or day of the year. I can push it hard and it wont over heat. temp says at the middle or below. And thats with stock replacement parts.

    Do you have photos of how you have the intercool system set up on this car?
     
  5. B.mad

    B.mad Well-Known Member Preferred Vendor

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal
    The more im seeing, i might just do a vortec with my own intercooler kit, just gotta find a way to mount the intercooler without it interfering with the radiator or AC condensor.
     
  6. hotmustang95

    hotmustang95 Active Member

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Location:
    Boynton Beach FL
    And you have ac too? You better have some fabrication skills or deep pockets to make all that work. My suggestion to you is get everything on that list minus the blower. Have you ever done an event? It's not about hp. A Miata will blow the doors off your 500hp car if you have no experience. And you should really track the car now and get to know it well if you haven't already.
     
  7. B.mad

    B.mad Well-Known Member Preferred Vendor

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal

    I am going to do suspension and other upgrades, it isnt going to be an motor thing only. ive done few events, but in my other mustang not this one (with more hp). so i have some kind of experience. I am having some vibration issues right now, so i dont want to track it until i get that part fix, but i am going to track any event that i can attend. Im going to build the suspension first, before the motor. But i like blueprinting it as much as possible so i know exactly what i want and how i want it and how it will be accomplished.
     
  8. hotmustang95

    hotmustang95 Active Member

    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Location:
    Boynton Beach FL
    That's how I did it. I started tracking the car when it was mostly stock. Only had springs and cobra brakes. Along the way I had built an engine in my head. I bought parts when I could here and there. At the same time I was upgrading my suspension. When my stock engine finally blew up I bought an economy bottom end and slapped all the goodies on it.
     
  9. B.mad

    B.mad Well-Known Member Preferred Vendor

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal

    The only thing i have is subframes and koni's as far as suspension and chassis goes. Im not going to do a economic build. I am going to build it right. but i do want to know what im doing before i spend money
     
  10. RichV

    RichV Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,227
    Likes Received:
    247
    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Location:
    CO
    Get out of drag racing mode, and go do an event before you build.

    No disrespect, but you are talking like an inexperienced driver. An American Iron car makes 350-400 and I guarantee you'd shit your pants driving one. American Iron Extreme cars run boosted setups and are just insane.

    There re are boosted cars that run road courses, heat is the enemy. You need a good but conservative tune and a lot of cooling and oiling for that motor to last at 5000rpm 20-40 minutes straight.

    My 2 cents.
     
  11. B.mad

    B.mad Well-Known Member Preferred Vendor

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal
    No disrespect taken because technically speaking i am an inexperience driver. and i was never really in drag race mode as i never dragged race. so i am speaking from experience(from what ive done), research, and canyon driving, which i know is nothing compared to a road track, but still kind of applies to a smaller less abusive degree. ive driven in (i was not the driver) in a 600 hp car (drag car) and yes i would probably shit my pants driving that, but my 72 does have about 300ish hp to the crank. so it isnt as if i havent driven a car with decent HP. as far as heat, i know thats the enemy, and boosted cars generate more heat. so what i am asking is what boosted setups are people running on the track.

    intercooler, oil cooler, tranny coolers, meth injection, etc etc etc. I have absolutely noooo effin idea how boosted car work or react as i never had a boosted car. I appreciate your input, but i would like my questions answered. I know horsepower doesnt mean as much as a good suspension setup or good tires. But ive pretty much got the suspension and tires already set and from speaking with experienced racers, is a good goal. However, motorwise is my issue because eventually when i have the experience and its time to rebuild, a stock 302 with minor bolt ons will not be enough for me. Again, this motor and boosted setup will not happen until about 5 years or so., but i like knowing what my goal is before i start building to it.

    So if you want to bounce some idea back and forth with me and criticize my "motor building skills", or lack of, i am totally up for it, i love learning. But if youre going to keep telling me i'm inexperienced and should do events, than i would pass on talking with you, because i am obviously going to do events before i strap myself to a 600 hp car.
     
  12. RichV

    RichV Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,227
    Likes Received:
    247
    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Location:
    CO
    So what is your open track experience? And what makes you think you want a blown Mustang on a road course?

    I've had all sorts of suspension on my road race cars, and it never feels like you have it sorted out. So just because you may have xyz parts on suspension and brakes, doe not mean you are good to go. Not by any means. The only true way is to get the experience, and learn why your car understeers or oversteers, and find the balance.

    Again, my suggestion is to get out there and do an event or 2, if you have not.
     
  13. g36 monkey

    g36 monkey Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

    Messages:
    14,057
    Likes Received:
    539
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Location:
    Orlando, Fl
    My personal recommendation (and I will probably catch flack for this) is if you insist on boosting a road course car, evade turbo's (while they are great for making power, I find them finicky on road course cars, I'll explain shortly) and centri blowers. I would stick to roots/twinscrew for a road course vehicle.

    The main reason for that is the setup is much simpler on topmounted superchargers. They don't have the same issues centri/turbo cars have of potential boost spikes. I will say, this doesn't apply as much to cars that are factory turbo'd with little tiny turbos that spool quickly, and all the kinks are worked out.

    For example:
    Countless times I've seen cars spike through turns. Say the car typically hits 16 pounds of boost, but in this turn it spikes up to 22, and you end up losing control because of it. Yes, there are a number of things you can do to counter spikes and create consistency, but I would just as soon avoid the whole scenario.

    Centri blowers aren't nearly as risky as turbos when it comes to boost spikes, however they are still succeptible.

    Roots style blowers generate the most heat (easily countered with meth and intercooled setups) but keep the most consistent boost levels. Again, this is all just my opinion, and it might start an argument.

    And I'll close saying most people argue that the best thing for road racing is N/a, to me the closest form of boost to an n/a car is a roots style blower.
     
  14. g36 monkey

    g36 monkey Moderator Staff SN95 Supporter

    Messages:
    14,057
    Likes Received:
    539
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2008
    Location:
    Orlando, Fl
    PS, what Rich just said is very true. I wouldn't go out trying to build God's suspension, the best way to do that is to do events and then find what parts can help control the issue you're having.
     
  15. RichV

    RichV Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,227
    Likes Received:
    247
    Joined:
    May 6, 2012
    Location:
    CO
    [video=youtube;KC1aRHekq8Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC1aRHekq8Y[/video]

    This is Chris Griswold with a turbo'd AIX New Edge. His straight line speed is awesome, but in the turns he can't go any faster than a AI or CMC car. But he has to brake a lot more after a straight. He has to come down from 180 in the long straight versus maybe 140 for a AI car.
     
  16. duh09

    duh09 Legend

    Messages:
    9,241
    Likes Received:
    130
    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2008
    Location:
    Alabama
    Why are you wanting boost?

    My personal opinion, if you're wanting to build a race car, simplicity is huge and throwing boost at it is throwing another system into the mix. A Procharger/Vortech kit is a good start but then you'll be battling keeping the heat down in a car that will spend most of it's time at high RPMs/boost so then you're adding intercoolers, Meth setups, more in depth aero to help pull heat out of the bay, plus any jobs you may need to at the track will now be that much harder with all the piping and S/C in the way.

    If I was going to build a high hp road race car, I'd build a really nice N/A 351W based motor.



    EDIT: I take that back, Coyote swap.
     
  17. B.mad

    B.mad Well-Known Member Preferred Vendor

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal
    Obviosly goals are subject to change, the change being which front or rear sway bar diameter to go with or which spring rate/struts & shocks to go with, which alignment is better how much camber etc etc, but the main parts will stay the same i.e phb/ta control arms etc.

    main reason for a blown mustang is so i dont have to do an aggressive N/A build and is streetable thats the main reason. I am not going all balls out and build it and race it. I am slowly getting parts and still going to do events, but again the some parts are subject to change while others are not. and again ive done minimal events (honestly 2 and not in my 94), and again before i do more events i want at least some better tires and want to fix whats wrong with my car before i really screw something up.
     
  18. B.mad

    B.mad Well-Known Member Preferred Vendor

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal

    now we are getting somewhere. Ok first of all turbo is out of the question. 2nd i couldnt find any roots style supercharger for a pushrod. 3rd, i would really love to learn more on how and why it surges, because like you mentioned it can be dangerous
     
  19. B.mad

    B.mad Well-Known Member Preferred Vendor

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal
    exactly what i plan on doing..thats the point i am trying to make to him. i am not going to spend 5k in suspension and install it in a day. first of all i dont have 5k lol and it wont happen in a day. going to get a part here and there go to an event here and there, and continue that
     
  20. B.mad

    B.mad Well-Known Member Preferred Vendor

    Messages:
    1,996
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Location:
    SoCal
    reason for boost is to build a mild N/A motor and the rest will be on boost. Problem with swaps is cali doesnt like them, and its hardish to get them C.A.R.B. legal. I would love to get a coyote but i like my little pushrod and again CARB. good point on it makng jobs harder..how can i miss something so obvious. thats gonna suck when im 200 miles away from home....:(.. im not toooo mechanically gifted, just know theoretical mechanical stuff :p

    originally i wanted a 347 but that might not rev nicely and last as long so maybe a 331 is the better to go with. If i can get about 400-450RWHP from a N/A build that runs on pump gas, and i can drive to school, work, girlfriends house, and the track than by all means share that combo!

    but the combo i plan (minus the S/C) will net me around 350RWHP, which eventually will not be enough power WHEN I GET EXPERIENCE. sorry had to put it in caps for it stands out.