Road course SN95 build...

[sixstanger00]

Hey guys.

At the suggestion of LilRoush, I'm starting a thread here explaining my car's current mods, and a complete break down of future mods, from replacing bushings to a bore & stroke.

Virtually all of my engine/drivetrain mods are listed in my signature, so I guess the only other things I need to mention are the black projector headlights and black LED taillights.

My most recent mod has been the Delta Force Tuning Sniper tune. I have noted in a TXT file the parameters I changed on the tune if anyone's interested. I can copy & paste on here.

With the tune mentioned, brings a question for you guys: During the tune, I deleted the EGR valve, but I haven't PHYSICALLY removed it. Any tips on doing it? I purchased a pipe cap from Lowe's to cover the header mounting point, but what about the IM?

I'm kind of on the fence right now about my next mod. I'm on a low budget, so I have to do a little at a time. Until yesterday, I had my heart set on swapping the rearend to an 8.8" out of a GT because I was under the impression that they came with 3.73s factory with a T-Lok and 31 spline axles. You guys cleared that up for me, and in fact its sounding like the 7.5" will do just fine with 3.73s and a T-Lok, so that's probably what I'm going to do.

I've also been contemplating a pair of Bride racing seats with an SCCA approved cage. The hold up on that is I need to know what kind of dash mods are going to be needed to accomodate the cage.

Finally, a friend of mine recently swapped his 3.8 for a 302, so the v6 is just sitting at his house collecting dust. This seems like an ideal candidate for me to tear down to bore & stroke, so I'm going to see how much he wants to sell it for.

Before I give the full breakdown, I'll allow for some input from everyone.

 

[LilRoush]

Personally, I would start by adjusting the coil overs a bit. Get the car to about a 1.5" drop (2" maybe - but you should switch to a fox body strut/shock package so they will handle the new height). I would guess right now your A arms are at a poor angle for handling the absorbing of weight as you transfer it during cornering (Probably horizontal or maybe even angled up right now which is no good). You're struts aren't able to properly control the spring compression - and it's killing the handling.
I'd do brakes next. To start with, 13" vented / slotted (not drilled) rotors, PBR calipers, SS lines, Hawk HPS pads and a good fluid. (Yes, flush the whole thing. Good fluid is key to any brake system).

For cage, I wouldn't do a full one at this stage. A 4 point with a cross bar will be enough for your needs. I strongly suggest a weld in style. I've seen many of the bolt in kits fail when they are needed.

I'll also caution against getting mods you 'think' race cars have. Just because it works on an AI car or a high end dedicated track car doesn't always mean it's right for your application. One of the best "bare bones" type V6 road course cars I've seen built was done by Andrew Diller. He had a green V6 track car that crashed last year. He is in the process of building another one with the parts from his old car. Not a lot of fancy stuff, not a lot of power.. he built it smart, on a budget and it held it's own with the big boys out there.
His crash thread:
http://3.7mustang.com/vb/f84/greensteeda-where-now-264264/

Here's his new build thread:
http://3.7mustang.com/vb/f84/greensteeda-race-car-build-2-a-264607/

 

[sixstanger00]

Before I go to making coilover adjustments, I want to swap struts/shocks to Tokicos and the UPR coilovers I mentioned. But I AM going to raise it an inch all around when I install the UPRs.

For the control arms, I just outright don't like the Ford design; its big, cumbersome and just plain heavy. MM&FFs had an article on a guy's SN95 that dropped a little under 400 lbs of curb weight by swapping the entire suspension (K member, control arms, coilovers, etc) to UPR products. Now, I don't want to sound oblivious to other suspension manufacturers such as Maximum Motorsports, Steeda, Roush, & Ford Racing, but I decided I wanted a complete UPR setup a long time ago.

For the brakes, I've had my eye for sometime on the Baer kit from brothersperformance.com. Their Front Track brake kit comes with 2 piston aluminum calipers, 13" slotted & drilled rotors, performance pads and steel braided brake lines. For the rear, Baer makes a 13" conversion kit. The caliper remains the wimpy single piston, but the rotor is converted to a 13" slotted & drilled. Both rotor sets are zinc washed.

For the cage, I actually originally planned on getting the 6-point NHRA approved cage from Maximum Motorsports, mainly to accomodate the Bride seats & harnesses, but after doing some homework on NASA's website, I realized that a full cage would be required if I ever got to the point of competing in Time Trials. Since the interior will have to be stripped out for the cage anyway, I figured I just do it all at once. I also want a rear seat delete kit, btw.

 

[LilRoush]

Ok, I realize I forgot to ask (or maybe skipped reading it)... how much time have you spent on a road course? it seems like you are trying to build a full on car. I'd suggest building as you go. It will make you a better driver.

I know we mentioned this, but UPR sucks for quality. You're just asking for problems when you push that K member hard. I would never personally take one onto a road course. There is way too much that can go wrong when those welds start cracking. I know you said you decided "a long time ago" - but make smart choices with good information. Maybe, let me ask this: Why do you like the UPR over products like MM, Griggs, Steeda?

13" rears are just fine with the stock caliper. You don't need anything bigger than a stock caliper and good pad back there. I run mine that way.

With the cage, I will say you are pushing it a bit at this level still. I would NEVER drive a full cage car on the street. It's not safe for the driver, they are designed to work with other safety gear during race conditions (ie: a helmet). A side hit accident will send your head right into the halo bar and could kill you on the street. So unless you are planning on this being a track only car, take a step back and stick to the 4 point with a cross bar. That will work just fine with the seats you want.

 

[ba#97]

i will vouch for the hawk hps's and definitely get some motull brake fluid. this is what i use.....
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=49_143&products_id=680

works very well.

 

[sixstanger00]

To date, I have never set tires on a road course, and youre are right to suggest building as I go. The idea behind this build is too improve my driving skill as the car improves. Already been down the "do it all at once" road with the '95 V6 I owned. Big mistake. I've learned that even if a mod adds 2 to 10 hp, the car always drives differently than it did before, so I allow myself to "adjust" to it before making further improvements. After the tune, I knew it was going to be a minute before I was ready for UD pulleys & the rearend setup.

As you suggest, I'm going to start by running autoXs, SCCA is having one in Meridian, MS in Nov & Dec, both about 30 miles from where I live. In March of next year, I'm planning to attend NASA's HPDE at Talladega Grand Prix.....(the road course, not the redneck track.) I know its going to be a while before I even consider competing in Time Trials or any wheel to wheel racing. I know I need the experience on the track first.

If I do decide to get the Bride seats, should I go ahead with the MM 6 point NHRA cage?

 

[MadStang]

i will vouch for the hawk hps's and definitely get some motull brake fluid. this is what i use.....
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=49_143&products_id=680

works very well.

Hawks are okay but they just don't have the bite or resistance to fade like Porterfield Pads do. I swear by the Porterfiekd R-4's because of how high quality they are.

To date, I have never set tires on a road course, and youre are right to suggest building as I go. The idea behind this build is too improve my driving skill as the car improves. Already been down the "do it all at once" road with the '95 V6 I owned. Big mistake. I've learned that even if a mod adds 2 to 10 hp, the car always drives differently than it did before, so I allow myself to "adjust" to it before making further improvements. After the tune, I knew it was going to be a minute before I was ready for UD pulleys & the rearend setup.

As you suggest, I'm going to start by running autoXs, SCCA is having one in Meridian, MS in Nov & Dec, both about 30 miles from where I live. In March of next year, I'm planning to attend NASA's HPDE at Talladega Grand Prix.....(the road course, not the redneck track.) I know its going to be a while before I even consider competing in Time Trials or any wheel to wheel racing. I know I need the experience on the track first.

If I do decide to get the Bride seats, should I go ahead with the MM 6 point NHRA cage?

I'd just go with the MM 4-point. I'm currently running one and realistically it's all you need unless you're going to a full race car at which point you can just have more bars added to the 4 point. NHRA may or may not be legal for SCCA or NASA sanctions. I double checked before getting my MM 4 point that it was cross compatible for both racing sanctions and it is.

Just a personal opinion as well, you're going to pay extra for the Brides when you can get virtually the same seat from corbeau or sparco. I've done a lot of research on seats lately since I'm going to a full race seat soon, and brides are overpriced just because they are well known and popular in the JDM market...

 

[ba#97]

To date, I have never set tires on a road course, and youre are right to suggest building as I go. The idea behind this build is too improve my driving skill as the car improves. Already been down the "do it all at once" road with the '95 V6 I owned. Big mistake. I've learned that even if a mod adds 2 to 10 hp, the car always drives differently than it did before, so I allow myself to "adjust" to it before making further improvements. After the tune, I knew it was going to be a minute before I was ready for UD pulleys & the rearend setup.

As you suggest, I'm going to start by running autoXs, SCCA is having one in Meridian, MS in Nov & Dec, both about 30 miles from where I live. In March of next year, I'm planning to attend NASA's HPDE at Talladega Grand Prix.....(the road course, not the redneck track.) I know its going to be a while before I even consider competing in Time Trials or any wheel to wheel racing. I know I need the experience on the track first.

If I do decide to get the Bride seats, should I go ahead with the MM 6 point NHRA cage?

for autox cuzz your just starting....you don't have to go insane. just go out and have some fun. no need for 315 hoosier slicks on all 4 corners like my crazy ass is planning. correct madstang? lol. oh and i just had hawk hp+'s on my car but i still street drive so i was going to shoot myself with how loud they were. if your just making a track day/autox car....those are the way to go. i've never tried the porterfields but if you don't go on the street at all hp+ all the way. they grip very very well and will last you at least a whole season of autox. my brother has proven it. he's the scca sacramento cup e street prepared champ with his 08 gt.

 

[ba#97]

i would definitely say take lilroush's advice and go with the 4 point for now. if you begin nasa time trials....it's as easy as finding a good welder in your area and adding to it from there. i will be doing the same as you too which is why i'm keeping an eye on this thread.
and lilroush.....for my track daying.....yes i will stick with my 275's. 315's are overkill there. lol.

 

[Musturd]

I always bevel the edges and add a groove or two in the hawk pads for that reason of how loud they are lol. But holy shit do they work great on the street

 

[LilRoush]

To give you an idea, when my V6 was a full on car I ran a tubular K, fox body tubular A arms, fox body Bilstein HD shocks/struts, Roush 2001 Stage 3 springs (most aggressive springs Roush made), Roush sway bars, Roush lower control arms (stock uppers), MM 4 point, Cobreau A4, Roush 13" brakes at all four corners (Hawk HP pads for track, HPS for street), and fog light ducts to cool front brakes. Stripped of weight (A/C, radio, rear seat, trunk etc...). It took me two years of racing to learn how to push the car hard enough to need to go that far with mods. To this day, that's about as far as I'd go and still have more car than driver (and I have had that car almost a decade).
I'll also say I started in auto x, and it's nothing like road course. I'll never go back. Now auto X is like trying to drink a warm diet caffine free Mt Dew. Try to get time at a HPDE with an instructor. You'll learn a ton about how to make the car move.

 

[ba#97]

$299 from corbeau site.....
http://www.corbeau.com/products/fixed_back_seats/fx1_pro/

 

[ba#97]

i loved my hp+'s lol. if you get them for the street.....make DAMN sure you bed them in right. hahaha. hey lil roush....based off my setup right now, what would you recommend i do next suspension wise? i have mm coilovers on all 4 corners with koni single adjustables, mm cc plates, and upr upper and lower rear control arms.

 

[sixstanger00]

SCCA is alot more strict on safety guidelines than NASA. SCCA's equivalent to NASA's HPDE, the PDX, is the only class you're allowed on the track without a cage. NASA allows you to complete all 4 stages without needing to have your car race prepped.

SCCA ran an autoX in Meridian back in October, and somehow I missed it. Didnt even know about it until I got on facebook and all my friends were posting statuses saying, "had fun today at the track!" Even worst, the local news did a story on it, and a "rival" car group was interviewed. Bla....

MM makes a 6 point for a little over $400 I think. The 4 point doesn't have anykind of reinforcement along the doors. Also, I found a set of new Bride seats for about $400:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRIDE-VIOS-LOW-MAX-RACING-SEATS-BLACK-FRP-BLACK-CLOTH-/260856110914?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cbc3c5f42#ht_1601wt_939

this the roll bar I have in mind:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/s...roduct_info&cPath=121_126_273&products_id=820

 

[MadStang]

for autox cuzz your just starting....you don't have to go insane. just go out and have some fun. no need for 315 hoosier slicks on all 4 corners like my crazy ass is planning. correct madstang? lol. oh and i just had hawk hp+'s on my car but i still street drive so i was going to shoot myself with how loud they were. if your just making a track day/autox car....those are the way to go. i've never tried the porterfields but if you don't go on the street at all hp+ all the way. they grip very very well and will last you at least a whole season of autox. my brother has proven it. he's the scca sacramento cup e street prepared champ with his 08 gt.

Porterfield R4-S. Street Pads that are just a notch down from their R-4 pads that I run. The street pads are still amazing, next time you get a new set order some porterfields from lpiracing.com =]

SCCA is alot more strict on safety guidelines than NASA. SCCA's equivalent to NASA's HPDE, the PDX, is the only class you're allowed on the track without a cage. NASA allows you to complete all 4 stages without needing to have your car race prepped.

SCCA ran an autoX in Meridian back in October, and somehow I missed it. Didnt even know about it until I got on facebook and all my friends were posting statuses saying, "had fun today at the track!" Even worst, the local news did a story on it, and a "rival" car group was interviewed. Bla....

MM makes a 6 point for a little over $400 I think. The 4 point doesn't have anykind of reinforcement along the doors. Also, I found a set of new Bride seats for about $400:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRIDE-VIOS-LOW-MAX-RACING-SEATS-BLACK-FRP-BLACK-CLOTH-/260856110914?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cbc3c5f42#ht_1601wt_939

this the roll bar I have in mind:
http://www.maximummotorsports.com/s...roduct_info&cPath=121_126_273&products_id=820

if you're going to go with a cage that has door bars don't go for the Nhra style door bars. you need the full bars like Autopower sells. as of right now you don't need full bars IMO. so a 4 point is fine, add door bars later.

Also, I'd never buy a used seat, after periods of use the foam in the seat molds to the person that uses it, and the worst thing you can do is be uncomfortable when you're racing. go to a local shop that sells racing seats and sit in them and find the one that's most comfortable to you vs. buying blindly.

 

[ba#97]

it's all up to personal preference. i'm going with the corbeau's and probably the 4 point cage. and i would go nasa if i were you that way you don't have to go into all that just to track day. your thinking too big already just for getting experience. you may find out you don't like it and all of a sudden you have a fully caged stang for nothing. not saying you won't like it cuz i'm almost positive you will. haha. but yeah.

 

[MadStang]

it's all up to personal preference. i'm going with the corbeau's and probably the 4 point cage. and i would go nasa if i were you that way you don't have to go into all that just to track day. your thinking too big already just for getting experience. you may find out you don't like it and all of a sudden you have a fully caged stang for nothing. not saying you won't like it cuz i'm almost positive you will. haha. but yeah.

Yup all preference. I'm going to be heading to a shop I've been dealing with for years here called Werks 2 Motorsports. It's where I buy all my safety gear and they have a massive stock of just about every kind of race seat.

I'm really gungho about the Sparco Circuit seats, I'm skinny at 6'6" 155lbs, and the seat is tall so my heads not over the bolsters and skinny where I need it to hold me in place laterally.

 

[Musturd]

No shit skinny and tall as fuck

 

[MadStang]

No shit skinny and tall as fuck

Just call me race weight. LOL

 

[vermilion]

eat a cheeseburger or 3