smoked a ricer today!

[RockstarMentality]

where oh where to begin...
1. first off, why do people always bring up the s2k to defend the shitvic? i dont bring up the Ford GT to defend the mustang.
Because the S2000 is in the 10,000-15,000 price range now. The Ford GT is a supercar in a completely different price range.
Let me rephrase that. i dont bring up the Mustang to defend the Escort.

2. not hard to triple 90whp
A bit more than that but close enough. I disagree that it is so easy to triple the power output and keep everything mostly stock.... on my Mustang triple = 780hp
all im getting here is Mustang = way more badass than civic

3. any ET with -teen as a suffix is slow.
My 13-12sec examples were with the H22 and K20 engines which would be left 100% stock while maintaining factory reliability and daily drivability. So obviously the goal is not the max power but just an example of what a stock 2.0Liter Honda engine runs. Those times are comparable to the new 5.0 Mustang with newer technology and 2.5X the engine.
i can respect this argument.

4. most "sports cars" handling suck stock. i know mine does, and i have better shocks/struts, bigger brakes, and a lighter car than everyone else...stock. not to mention you cant compare a MODIFIED civic to a STOCK wrx.
Drive a Civic on a twisty road. The handling is comparable to a 911 (yes I do have a 911)
youre talking about modified... theres Mustangs with modified suspensions that handle like theyre on rails too. not denying the econoboxes ability to corner, but it can be matched.

6. its a freaking 1.6 liter, so buy a 4.6 and turbo it and make way more power. i fail to understand your argument here.
It doesn't matter as long as it goes fast. A 10sec turbo 1.6Liter or a 10sec 4.6 turbo... Both are fun. The point was that people don't give them enough credit.
with comparable mods, that Mustang will leave that civic in the dust. also seen many mustangs, blown and N/A, run 10s. nevere seen a civic run anything even close to that.

now, i would like to say, .0000000000001% of civics can actually live up to the game the owner is talking. to the rest of them "oh yeah its fully built, it will stomp your fnckin mustang like a junebug" means they have an ebay ram air intake and a spoiler duct taped on, and theyll probly have to push it across the finish line. "cuz my vtec isnt working, i woulda had you"
This is the reason I started arguing. Misinformation. Yes there are ricers running around but what do you expect after the fast and the furious movie came out and all the kids watched it?
There are plenty of fast FWD 4cyl running around. Mine runs, yes it is a civic, it is FAR from fully built, in fact, mostly stock. it makes nearly 400hp and weighs 1900lbs so you do the math.
dyno sheets and mod list or i call bs

take the meanest, nastiest, fastest, gnarliest 100 mustangs you can find. then do the same for civics. i guarentee mustang #100 will still beat civic #1
we need to start arguing one point at a time, this post was way too long

 

[duh09]

I think with any amount of money any car can be made to be faster than any other car.

 

[RockstarMentality]

but by that point its not even a _____ anymore, its your creation. thats why when people customize every single part of their car, (we'll use a Corvette for an example,) they get rid of everything that says Chevrolet, Corvette, Z06, etc. except the vin

 

[infamous209]

dont make since to me to buy a 2k car and dump 6k in the motor so i can say i have a fast 1.6

 

[duh09]

dont make since to me to buy a 2k car and dump 6k in the motor so i can say i have a fast 1.6

But it makes sense to buy a $4k car and dump $6k in the motor so you can say you have a fast Mustang?

 

[RockstarMentality]

the fast mustang will actually be, ya know... fast.

 

[duh09]

the fast mustang will actually be, ya know... fast.

Someone needs to tell my Mustang because for some reason it still gets whooped by Civics with GSR swaps.

 

[ARdoller]

dont make since to me to buy a 2k car and dump 6k in the motor so i can say i have a fast 1.6

But it makes sense to buy a $4k car and dump $6k in the motor so you can say you have a fast Mustang?

Mustangs were designed with the intent to buy and modify. Hondas are not. There's your difference.

If you want to modify a Honda, go put a performance air filter on your lawn mower.

 

[got5.0]

the fast mustang will actually be, ya know... fast.

Someone needs to tell my Mustang because for some reason it still gets whooped by Civics with GSR swaps.

this! A buddy of mine has a 93 with a GSR swap and big time compression and it is a very fun and fast car. I don't get how people can not grasp the fact that Hondas can be fast when the right owner mods them.

 

[duh09]

the fast mustang will actually be, ya know... fast.

Someone needs to tell my Mustang because for some reason it still gets whooped by Civics with GSR swaps.

this! A buddy of mine has a 93 with a GSR swap and big time compression and it is a very fun and fast car. I don't get how people can not grasp the fact that Hondas can be fast when the right owner mods them.

My friend bought his hatch with the swap, and added a few minor bolt ons and stomped the crap out of my Stang and most cars around here. He pieced together a eBay turbo kit on it and is running a super conservative tune while he gathers better parts and I think he hit about 280hp to the wheels with bad motor mounts and a shit eBay turbo

 

[Oleg]

I wasn't defending Civics but Hondas in general, that was my reasoning for bringing up the S2000.
Please read what I said again. I never claimed that a Civic is superior to a RWD car in a straight line, I just pointed out that people don't give Civics nowhere near the credit they deserve! That is all I was saying.

A fully built FWD Civics usually run 9s and occasionally dip into 8s in the 1/4 (from what I have seen, I am not saying that I own one that fast or know what it takes to build it that fast). Fully built Mustangs are a bit faster but not by that much! (unless we are talking modified to the point where it's not a Mustang anymore) And then there are hundreds of 8 sec Mustangs for one 8sec Civic, that I can't argue with.

But once again, that is not at all what I was talking about. All I was saying is that it doesn't take a rocket scientist or a lot of money to make a Honda faster than most muscle cars on the street. Once again, I did NOT say ALL muscle cars and I didn't say fully built muscle cars. No matter what you do to a street legal Civic on street legal tires, it will obviously never take a modded C6 Z06 or anything that runs with a Z06.

A couple of people mentioned a GS-R swapped Civic beating a Mustang. I believe that because I have a very mildly modded Mustang and my friend has a completely stock GS-R and they run very close. That being said, a stock GS-R is nowhere near what I would call fast or even quick but it keeps up with a 4.6 Mustang that most people drool over. A stock GS-R is only 150ish whp by the way and probably 100wtq... on a good day lol.
Then like somebody else mentioned, it is cheap to turbo a Honda. If you only have ~5,000K to play with, you could easily have a 90s Civic with 300-400hp.. or if you do an F/H series swap, it will have just as much torque. Not saying that is it better than a Mustang, it is just a completely different world of cars that are also also very capable. That much power in a 2000lbs car is tons and tons of fun, feels like you've got double the power you actually have, and with good tires traction shouldn't be a problem. Just a completely different experience than RWD. One thing I love about high hp FWD is that you can still DRIVE it on snow and rain with summer tires and you will never lose control.

 

[RockstarMentality]

still not a fan of s2ks, but theyre better than civics.
an 8 sec econobox will be modified to the point where its not a civic anymore, so why cant we compare them to mustangs with similar mods? i dont get why you think you can argue fully built engine swapped civics vs bolt on mustangs. lets compare apples to apples here.
stock mustang vs stock civic = mustang wins
bolt on mustang vs bolt on civic = mustang wins
swapped mustang vs swapped civic = too many variables, cant say
highly modified mustang vs highly modified civic = mustang wins (notice any patterns?)
stupid crazy modified mustang vs stupid crazy modified civic = mustang wins

 

[Oleg]

I wasn't comparing fully built Civics to bolt-on Mustangs. I did say that a fully built Mustang is faster obviously.

Fully build american muscle is always faster. My point was that it only takes a couple of thousand in a Civic to beat a lot of muscle cars on the street because most of them only have bolt-ons and weight a lot more. And call it an econobox or whatever you wish, it is still very capable with tiny engines making same power as v8s completely stock (example H22 compared to the old Mustang 5.0 for example, both were in production in 1993), and they will always handle better than muscle cars with the exception of newer vettes.

 

[RockstarMentality]

it takes zero dollars in a muscle car to beat a lot of hondas on the street.
the 1993 302, in stock form, is pathetic. simple h/c/i and it comes to life, wheras with your h22, also pathetic in stock form, would NEED a turbo to put down even somewhat respectable numbers.
oh, and a supercharger kit for a fox 302 can be found for $1500-2k. i have no clue how much h/c/i would cost (maybe like 1k?) but combine them and you have a bamf budget build.
so build your lude. we're talking quality new parts, so please dont pull the "well if you can find an engine for $12 and a sandwich on craigslist...."

 

[duh09]

it takes zero dollars in a muscle car to beat a lot of hondas on the street.
the 1993 302, in stock form, is pathetic. simple h/c/i and it comes to life, wheras with your h22, also pathetic in stock form, would NEED a turbo to put down even somewhat respectable numbers.
oh, and a supercharger kit for a fox 302 can be found for $1500-2k. i have no clue how much h/c/i would cost (maybe like 1k?) but combine them and you have a bamf budget build.
so build your lude. we're talking quality new parts, so please dont pull the "well if you can find an engine for $12 and a sandwich on craigslist...."

You CANNOT find a full quality new supercharger kit or H/C/I for $3K. You can have one or the other, but not both.

However, it'd only take one of those to beat that pesky GSR Civic. Well maybe. He has a eBay turbo kit and put out around 300hp with bad motor mounts and something else that needed replacing on a conservative 8psi tune.

 

[RockstarMentality]

$2120.95 for a brand new vortech
i completely guessed on the h/c/i i thought maybe like 500 for heads 300 for a cam and 200 for an intake

 

[infamous209]

full engine swap for full engine swap mustang still wins. yes ricers are competitive but ill keep the deep throaty exhaust over that weed eater sound any day

 

[duh09]

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/TFS-K514350370

Trickflow top-end kit for $2500. Still need an elbow to work on our cars but still.


Either way you go with those, you'll still need a tune to get the full potential out of them and those aren't too cheap. So in my mind, you can still have just one or other for $3k with new parts.



Full engine swap to full engine swap is a bit silly when comparing a Mustang to a Civic. Civic have a good range of motors that literally drop right in cheaply. What motor is there to realistically swap easily into a Mustang? I suppose with a 302 you could bump up to a 351, but what 351 stock would be worth it? Maybe a Cobra motor into a Mustang but at that point, you've probably spent twice what the Civic guy spent and he could spend the other half making his car even faster.

You guys are incredibly closed minded about this. Would I rather have a Mustang over a Civic? Hell fucking yes. But I know it doesn't take much to make a quick one. If I had $5000 to make a good quick street car, I could probably get a lot farther investing in a Civic.

 

[infamous209]

well everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine is ill keep my nuts and drive a v8 no matter how slow

 

[Mustang Mark]

i think it would be kinda cool to make a sleeper civic that still had a stock exhaust and a cut out after a turbo