Suspension geometry: SN95 vs S197?

[cobraracer46]

Here is a shoot out between the Terminator and GT500. the GT500 is quicker around a road course, but the Terminator won because it was more fun to drive. (The Terminator had a stock IRS suspension. Proof that that stock 2003-2004 IRS is not too bad.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exuUS4_ckZw

 

[white95]

You just can't help yourself lol

Nice job on your subframe connector install. Did you have to psych yourself up to make the initial cut??

 

[MustangChris]

^lol. lmfao.


... lol..

 

[RichV]

The CMC suspension for a Mustang is as follows:

Front:
-OEM K-member and control arms
-Aftermarket shock/spring is allowed
-spring/shock must be OEM mount, no coilover mods
-bushings are unrestricted
-X2 balljoint is not allowed
-OEM spindles only
-no external reservoir shocks
-OEM sway bar sizes only

Rear:
-SRA only
-can camber the axle
-OEM pickup points on axle and torque boxes, may be reinforced
-LCAs are unrestricted, if adjustable, adjustment must be locked down, length cannot vary from OEM length
-UCAs can only be OEM style, bushing material is unrestricted on all bushings (all 4 links MUST be present)
-springs/shocks must use OEM mounting, shocks cannot have external reservoir, unrestricted
-PHB may be added
-OEM sway bar sizes only

 

[RichV]

I know the Terminator was touched by the hand of God and all, but the suspension is still a 78 Fairmont, IRS forgiving.

I looked at NASA SoCal MyLaps for laptimes at Willow Springs for comparison. CMC class was in the 1:35 range, so the Terminator running 1:38.05 and GT500 at 1:36.80 is not unreasonable. Specially with a driver that does not know the car and is fighting with a street car.

 

[white95]

LMFAO

If they only weighed about 600-700 pounds less with a better weight distrubution eh?

 

[g36 monkey]

I'm going to have a hard time finding a class I can be competitive in since I went crazy with coil overs and a tubular K member lol

 

[Slykin]

All I know is that when I road in a 2012 mustang all I could think was HOLY ****...... HOLY **** the rear is super planted!

 

[RichV]

I'm going to have a hard time finding a class I can be competitive in since I went crazy with coil overs and a tubular K member lol

You can always find a class to fit a vehicle.

In NASA there is a catch-all class of PT(Performance Touring). It is similar to TT(Time Trials) where you look up your car on a chart and it classes X all stock with a point value. Then you add points based on mods you did, the final points will then add up and it may bump you up a class or 2. The PT is a wheel to wheel class, where TT is like a Time Attack where you just turn fast laps.

 

[Photonfanatic]

Well from the looks of things, it seems as though the S197 handles so much better (stock) cause its suspension is much beefier. There is a lot more parts and components to it, that the SN-95's simply didn't come with. I mean stock GT vs stock GT. I guess when you add all that stuff to an SN-95, it would handle much closer to the S197, correct? But is there a way to do this, that won't make the SN-95 ride like a steel drum rolling down a dirt road? The stock 2013 GT's have to ride nice for all those people who just want to be able to say "Hurr I haz Murstangg!!" Then again I can't make fun of 'em too much cause I'm not one for a rough ride anymore either.

 

[RichV]

The S197 is a better suspension design. Different weight distribution, center of gravity, roll center, track width, wheelbase, etc. It's a different car.

Just put whatever suspension pieces you like under your SN and drive it. Why are you concerned with handling like the S197? Unless you compete against them on the way to Dairy Queen or something.

 

[KillNThrill24]

Some very cool info in this thread, regardless of it's true intended purpose

 

[MadStang]

All I know is that when I road in a 2012 mustang all I could think was HOLY ****...... HOLY **** the rear is super planted!

lol and that's with a panhard bar... if you really want an eye opening experience ride along in a car with a watts link. Not gonna lie, the first race session I test the watts / 3-link on my car my eyes were WIDE. 65-70mph through a slalom just isn't natural for a mustang lol

 

[Slykin]

lol and that's with a panhard bar... if you really want an eye opening experience ride along in a car with a watts link. Not gonna lie, the first race session I test the watts / 3-link on my car my eyes were WIDE. 65-70mph through a slalom just isn't natural for a mustang lol

That's exactly what was also going through my head "a panhard bar makes it THIS good???" lol.. I can't wait to get my TA/PHB installed.

 

[ReplicaR]

S197 vs SN95, stock style suspension, S197 will win every single time. The front end of those cars yields an enormous amount of grip, very well designed. Rear end articulates well, has lots of traction. Chassis is a lot stiffer, so it can use the power really well. You've got better weight distribution on S197. It really is no comparison, nor should it be, since one chassis design is over quarter century newer than the other (SN95 is technically a fox chassis still). Even with my full MM suspension, I would still pick a stock style suspension S197 with simple set of really good coilovers. You can't hold back progress, it's as simple as that.

 

[white95]

Well said Dmitry!

 

[MadStang]

S197 vs SN95, stock style suspension, S197 will win every single time. The front end of those cars yields an enormous amount of grip, very well designed. Rear end articulates well, has lots of traction. Chassis is a lot stiffer, so it can use the power really well. You've got better weight distribution on S197. It really is no comparison, nor should it be, since one chassis design is over quarter century newer than the other (SN95 is technically a fox chassis still). Even with my full MM suspension, I would still pick a stock style suspension S197 with simple set of really good coilovers. You can't hold back progress, it's as simple as that.

True, but at the same time the current mustangs are severely held back by their weight. Not saying your wrong in anyway as the S197 is superior in all categories stock for stock. but realistically on a tight autocross course, the s197 is not going to do as well as an sn95 and an sn95 won't do as well as a fox. weight plays a HUGE factor in autocross versus a road course where you can lay down the power and have much longer and wider corners to drive the cars around.

 

[Photonfanatic]

So my question has been answered for cornering. What about drag racing? Or racing from a rolling start? Of course the S197 is going to be better off yet again, but is it easier to make the SN-95 compete with them when it comes to drag racing? Trying to gather info on how to set up my 94 to ride decent, and launch well. If that's even possible.

Taking turns well would just be a bonus, plus I was always curious about how much the cars had improved.

Saw some guy on Velocity channel talking about how you don't have to lose handling with bags, but would it actually improve?

 

[ReplicaR]

True, but at the same time the current mustangs are severely held back by their weight. Not saying your wrong in anyway as the S197 is superior in all categories stock for stock. but realistically on a tight autocross course, the s197 is not going to do as well as an sn95 and an sn95 won't do as well as a fox. weight plays a HUGE factor in autocross versus a road course where you can lay down the power and have much longer and wider corners to drive the cars around.

It is true that weight is a big factor, given that the situation is identical in every other way. But when you think about it, it's not identical at all really. You will know this, and will agree, that the most important thing when it comes to grip and handling is tire. The more tire you can put on the ground under various loads, the more grip you've got. S197 is just better at putting the tire down than SN95 or Fox, and remember, we are talking about stock suspension here. Now, if you are talking about racecars that have been thoroughly modified, and have similar type suspension setup, then yeah, less weight will win, but while S197 and SN95 have similar looking suspension (strut front, live axle rear), they are not the same at all, with S197 being a lot better. There is a reason why most S197s have smaller tire than previous generation Cobras. They have a good chassis underneath, and suspension that works well. They don't need big tire to mask a poorly designed car.

 

[Photonfanatic]

Very interesting. But bump for my last question.