The PI Headswap and You -

[Adam]

I will agree whole heartedly with the 4V comments. I don't disagree with what anyone is doing. I have been there done that and am just looking at what options are out there. With NPI heads, you are very limited on intakes without somne sort of "engineering", that was my biggest reason for swapping. With ANY 2V with stock pistons/rods your playing with fire with a power adder. I will be flying to Texas to hang with JL June 9-11th, we are building a transmission for my car. I'll give him plenty of grief..

Adam

 

[caseypayne69]

I'm saving for a PI headswap and its not looking cheap here.  I got used heads and intake off a 01 GT for 350 bucks.  I would like forged internals, and possible a big-bore setup.  Thats talkin 4,000 easy.  I also want my heads ported with a com cam, probably 270.  Thats 2,000 dollars.  So 2,000 for heads 4,000 for big-bore block then probably having someone else put it togather probably another 2,000.  I'm looking at 8,000 dollars for 430 ish hp.  Not seaming worth it right now.  The reason my seams stepp is because I figure when I do the swap.  If i do.  I'm going to do it right the first time.

I hear you on that one.
It does add up fast.

Big bore is the way to go.  I'm doing that with my shortblock.

How much power are you planning on running?
Are you adding a blower.?

My engine has 214,000 miles on it.  So I am looking into getting an entirely new motor setup.  When ever I can sort my finances in order to purchase something.  (Being married, you gotta put the right things first, like your family.) On that note, I wont be going cheap.  I just emailed VTengines tech support on prices on a LONGBLOCK big-bore aluminum block.    And here is the exact words on prices for my car.  "A bigbore PI longblock with stage2 heads and billet cams would be ~$9500."  So after .06 sales tax.  $10,070.  Don't forget, that doesnt include intake, fuel injectors, fuel pump, performance tune, Fuel rails, and some other small things I can't remember.  Plus my trans is not so hot, so I guess guess another $1,000 to $3,000 in trans.  So you have to ask your self if your car is worth dropping $15,000 into?  For me at this point in time. No, but after I'm out of college, (spring 07)  Yes, I think I will do this as a gift for my self.  Then dont forget body work. So my car looks to cost me $20,000 in the next couple of years.  Hope this gives you a better understanding of prices.

P.S. not backed with facts but with a stage II big-bore setup on a GT with 70 % of bolts-on should net 400 rwhp if not a little better.  Also note with this setup and 4.30 gears, and weight at 2,950 lb stang you can conquer upper 10 second qtr passes, with a drag suspension and slicks.

Casey

 

[Dalamar]

New motor time. ;D
I am aware of those kinds of prices. going all new, race preped, aluminum is expensive.
I personally am looking at VT's steel, non-stroked setup. thats 3200 bucks. they do a great job with
assembly, blue printing, and warranty.

If you're not adding a blower and running super high HP, I dont see the need for all that.


I hear you on the family / money side of things. That's why my car's not done yet.


The PI's are only a small part of your plans, but it sounds bad ass!

 

[caseypayne69]

Or for 4,000 dollars less you can find out if one of these big blocks fit in your engine bay.
http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/bigblock.asp

 

[Adam]

Casey I can tell you from fact that you will not see a naturally aspirated 2V 4.6 that makes 400rwhp that can be driven on the street. It would be completely unstreetable. The compression would need race gas alone, not to mention the cams would be so radical that the car wouldn't even wake up till 4000rpm. I don't want to rain on your parade, I just like to be honest. My buddy has a fully built all aluminum 2V that is about to the limit and still streetable and it makes 330rwhp/340rwtq.


Adam

 

[caseypayne69]

Casey I can tell you from fact that you will not see a naturally aspirated 2V 4.6 that makes 400rwhp that can be driven on the street. It would be completely unstreetable. The compression would need race gas alone, not to mention the cams would be so radical that the car wouldn't even wake up till 4000rpm. I don't want to rain on your parade, I just like to be honest. My buddy has a fully built all aluminum 2V that is about to the limit and still streetable and it makes 330rwhp/340rwtq.


Adam

I can understand cams and fully ported heads hurting daily driveability.  But not big bore.  I can't see how having a big-bore setupi hurt daily driving, as long as its tuned right.  From what I've seen big-bore will net around 40 to 55 rwhp. same goes for torq.  When i'm finally out of college i'l most likely ditch my stang and buy a newer one.  But for now its fun to research and see whats possible.  I do have PI heads and Intake.  I just refuse to put them on without doing it all the right way. Are you saying the big-bore alumin block with stage II heads wouldnt be streetable or 400 N/A rwhp?

 

[Adam]

Thats pretty much what I saying. I know Scott and Jim from VT very well, Jim can consume a very significant amount of beer. ;D The problem with a 2V NA motor is the fact that you are asking a lot to see 400rwhp NA. Its just a fact, some of the most "Built 2Vs" in the world which are absolutely unstreetable don't even see those numbers.

Adam

 

[caseypayne69]

If we already have a PI intake where can we purchase the adapter plate and gaskets and screws alone without having to buy the intake again?

 

[ALITL8]

if you use the Livernois adapter without their modified PI intake it will not clear your hood. i have already called them about purchasing the adapter and installation kit seperately.

 

[caseypayne69]

It wont fit as in take your sway bar off or buy a custom taller hood?

 

[DropTopPony]

I doubt you'd get 40 with stock pi cams.
If you do - great.
Dont know for sure, havent seen any feedback on that specifically.

The PI headswap is 60 rwhp. Powerheads states 65 rwhp.
If you get say 30, the headswap is double that, and gives you much more potential for added power in the future.
NPI heads You'll be limited for increasing power later, Just fyi. not trying to be negative, I've just seen it before.
Do you have the PI cams yet?

What are your plans for the car after you do this?

I'm gonna have to say your numbers are high!!! I have NEVER seen a car gain 60RWHP from just a PI swap...Its more like 45RWHP from a PI swap and add another 25-30 for aftermarket cams.

As far as Just a PI Intake/PI Cams they will get you up to 35RWHP and there are Dyno sheets floating around to prove it.

Now Powerheads is a good company but they have been known to inflate the numbers to sell product/services.

 

[ALITL8]

It wont fit as in take your sway bar off or buy a custom taller hood?

i dont know about if you have to remove the strut tower brace and im guessing they were talking about a stock hood. thats just what they told me, they may just want to sell a complete kit :dunno:

does anyone know what kind of clearance there is between the intake plenum and the hood?

 

[Dalamar]

I'm gonna have to say your numbers are high!!! I have NEVER seen a car gain 60RWHP from just a PI swap...

Is that tuned or not? Sounds like they need a real tune.

Its more like 45RWHP from a PI swap and add another 25-30 for aftermarket cams.

20 hp is easliy squeezed out of a good tune.
here again, I gained 95 at the wheels, and have feedback from more than one guy on corral
that got over 120 gain (NA) from a the same swap as me, but a better tuner.

As far as Just a PI Intake/PI Cams they will get you up to 35RWHP and there are Dyno sheets floating around to prove it.

I'd like to see some feedback on this, do you have any links?



Who here has done the headswap? - post up your results!

 

[Dalamar]

Alitl8 - I'm not sure on the clearance.

My strut tower brace wouldn't clear the intake after I did the swap.
I don't know for sure if the PI heads are higher than NPI,
I'll ask on that.

 

[caseypayne69]

I emailed livernoismotorsports. I asked this question. "I already own a PI intake for my 96 Mustang GT, I was wondering if you guys sold the adapter and parts without the inake?"

They said, "At this time we are out of stock on the plates, but do sell them alone for $299.95, however a stock manifold will not clear the hood because of the added height from the plates. We modify the manifold and also tap it for the coolant sensor that the PI manifold does not have."

Good response from that company. I like a company thats straight forward and treasts all possible customers nicely. I'll most likely end up buying it from them. On a side note anyone want my intake and heads? throw a price.

 

[ALITL8]

Alitl8 - I'm not sure on the clearance.

My strut tower brace wouldn't clear the intake after I did the swap.
I don't know for sure if the PI heads are higher than NPI,
I'll ask on that.

thanks Dalamar, let me know what you find out! theres no way im pulling my strut tower brace... it looks too cool ;D

I emailed livernoismotorsports. I asked this question. "I already own a PI intake for my 96 Mustang GT, I was wondering if you guys sold the adapter and parts without the inake?"

They said, "At this time we are out of stock on the plates, but do sell them alone for $299.95, however a stock manifold will not clear the hood because of the added height from the plates. We modify the manifold and also tap it for the coolant sensor that the PI manifold does not have."

Good response from that company. I like a company thats straight forward and treasts all possible customers nicely. I'll most likely end up buying it from them. On a side note anyone want my intake and heads? throw a price.

i had to call them because i didnt get any response from email. when i talked to them they did tell me the same thing. im not really worried about tapping the sensor since i already have the upgraded aluminum crossover. i wonder what they do to modify the intake ???

 

[Adam]

All you have to do is cut open the main plastic sheath that holds the drivers side sensor wire(among a billion other wires), pull the wire out(not cut just pull it out ) run it down the drivers side of the engine. There is a block plug there, take that out (all the coolant will drain out) and guess what screws right back into that same hole? Yes..the sensor that was on the drivers side of your old NPI intake. no reason to tap anything. Unless you like metal shavings everywhere.

Oh and I picked up 72rwhp and 51rwtq with PI headswap. Also added, VT Stage 1 cams, and FRPP shorties.

Adam

 

[Dalamar]

thanks Dalamar, let me know what you find out! theres no way im pulling my strut tower brace... it looks too cool ;D

I didn't get a response on that, sorry.

My stock brace is powder coated candy blue - u want it?

 

[97red]

the swap on my car was a night and day difference, and i did get it tuned but i fealt that i could've gotten a way better tune and when i install my longtubes, nitrous and stall im getting a whole new tune and see what i do n/a. I'm also doing this on all stock Intake mods. I want to see what kinda of power i can make with just a drop in full exhuast, cams, and swap!

 

[ALITL8]

thanks Dalamar, let me know what you find out! theres no way im pulling my strut tower brace... it looks too cool ;D

I didn't get a response on that, sorry.

My stock brace is powder coated candy blue - u want it?

thats cool, you guys talked me into looking for PI heads (romeo) and doing it right the first time. i guess the strut tower brace will clear or it wont :dunno: i dont really need another stock brace but thanks for the offer.