vortech or kenne bell???

Shocker98GT

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The reason KB and Whipple are the only ones to make kits are because twin screws are so much more difficult to build than a centrifugal supercharger, also more difficult to design because you're putting it on top of the motor in place of the original intake and manufacturing lower manifolds to mate up to the stock heads. It takes a lot of precision manufacturing to make a screw supercharger and get the clearances required. Same reason nobody makes an aftermarket head for the 4.6L, it isn't because it wouldn't be worth it, it's because aftermarket companies don't possess the time and the kind of tooling required to manufacture such a complicated head, it'd be too risky from a warranty/reputation standpoint because they really can't produce it in volume to the consistency that Ford or any other manufacturer can.

How many vehicle manufacturers choose to use centrifugals, compared to all the manufacturers that are putting twin-screw, roots, and turbos in their high performance vehicles?
 

justinschmidt1

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blown97stanger said:
I was in the same boat as you, and went with a Vortech. I'm happy i didnt go with KB, because i dont hook the way it is now. I couldnt imagine having boost right off tthe push of the pedal :nonono:

yea..people dont seem to understand this..

what the hell is the point of that?

you just blow the tires off with those KB

I have traction problems now n/a
 

Shocker98GT

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All in the tires and suspension. And of course having more and more practice driving it. No different than driving a big block car, it's just something you have to adjust to just like other vehicle characteristics, really. Even apples to apples with both cars having slicks, suspension and the works, most drag racing centri cars are launching them around 5k or so because they're making peak torque in that region.
 

justinschmidt1

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Shocker98GT said:
All in the tires and suspension. And of course having more and more practice driving it. No different than driving a big block car, it's just something you have to adjust to just like other vehicle characteristics, really. Even apples to apples with both cars having slicks, suspension and the works, most drag racing centri cars are launching them around 5k or so because they're making peak torque in that region.

Im talking about a daily driven street car...even with drag radials you will still blow the tires off with a KB

Basically a centri blower is better for going fast...

a KB or PD blower is just if you want all that power and torque at like 2k..basically a big block.
 

Shocker98GT

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I wouldn't call a KB that bad on the street, they're no worse than driving a stock 03 Cobra or similar. I wouldn't really call a Vortech better for going fast, maybe for going from a dig but a KB car will run a better MPH in the 1/4 mile-boost levels being the same and the times will be driver-dependant. Vortech only outmuscles them in the 5-6k region, when the boost levels get close enough where the efficiency of the centri allows it to make more peak power. It's really not a drastic difference between the two on top end, especially on these cars just because the stock intake (PI or NPI, or even the 4V intakes for that matter) have runners that are too long to really take advantage of a centrifugal's top end surge, where the KB doesn't have that restriction because it replaces the intake manifold. Once you get a centri on an intake with shorter runners, and especially cars with ported heads, it's no contest, they absolutely murder KB cars on the top end. But by that point you're making enough power to necessitate needing a built block, etc.
 

justinschmidt1

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Shocker98GT said:
I wouldn't call a KB that bad on the street, they're no worse than driving a stock 03 Cobra or similar. I wouldn't really call a Vortech better for going fast, maybe for going from a dig but a KB car will run a better MPH in the 1/4 mile-boost levels being the same and the times will be driver-dependant. Vortech only outmuscles them in the 5-6k region, when the boost levels get close enough where the efficiency of the centri allows it to make more peak power. It's really not a drastic difference between the two on top end, especially on these cars just because the stock intake (PI or NPI, or even the 4V intakes for that matter) have runners that are too long to really take advantage of a centrifugal's top end surge, where the KB doesn't have that restriction because it replaces the intake manifold. Once you get a centri on an intake with shorter runners, and especially cars with ported heads, it's no contest, they absolutely murder KB cars on the top end. But by that point you're making enough power to necessitate needing a built block, etc.

lol....I took a ride in a friends KB Gt with 11 psi and it was a joke.

Tap the gas and it would spin in first,second, even third.

he did have 18 inch rims with shitty tires and was dropped.

But still..theres like no traction there.
 

Shocker98GT

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Dropped or road race style suspension makes it that much worse though. My old 65 Mustang was like that, I had that car set up to handle the "old school" way (aka before I knew better), put some stiff ass springs and shocks on there with no attention paid to the geometry. It spun like crazy and it had a cammed 289 that was a dog off the line lol. It actually hooked up with the stock worn out suspension. Weight transfer makes a huge difference in traction though, moreso than the tires in a lot of cases.
 

CanaryGT

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Shocker98GT said:
I wouldn't call a KB that bad on the street, they're no worse than driving a stock 03 Cobra or similar. I wouldn't really call a Vortech better for going fast, maybe for going from a dig but a KB car will run a better MPH in the 1/4 mile-boost levels being the same and the times will be driver-dependant. Vortech only outmuscles them in the 5-6k region, when the boost levels get close enough where the efficiency of the centri allows it to make more peak power. It's really not a drastic difference between the two on top end, especially on these cars just because the stock intake (PI or NPI, or even the 4V intakes for that matter) have runners that are too long to really take advantage of a centrifugal's top end surge, where the KB doesn't have that restriction because it replaces the intake manifold. Once you get a centri on an intake with shorter runners, and especially cars with ported heads, it's no contest, they absolutely murder KB cars on the top end. But by that point you're making enough power to necessitate needing a built block, etc.

Then why do people say over and over again that a vortech would take a KB in the quarter? People say if you want to feel like your going fast get a KB, if you wanna actually do it, go vortech.....
 

Dalamar

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you should ask Paul aka "KB" since he had one on his 95.

I like the positive displacement's on the street. if your main goal is to drive on the street, the PD is more usable as you typically have short bursts of acceleration, and then your stuck crusing at the speed limit.
and YES you will need stickier tires!

I really like the feel of the instant torque.
I've driven both, 01 with the FRPP Eaton, and 98 with a Vortec, and like the PD better. it's up to you, but the whole drag racing argument.... I dunno, it sounds kind of one sided.
Which blower is best is relative to the rest of your combo, how much torque/HP are you going to push, can your suspension put it to the ground, are your tires good enough to push it, etc.
 

justinschmidt1

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it is true that a centri blower is more efficient at higher rpms right?

So when your at the track running the car from like 4500-6k all the way down the track it only makes sense that a car with a vortech at 9 psi would be faster than a KB car with 9 psi since the vortech car will be making more power all the way down the track.

This is assuming both cars are launching at like 5k and can actually hook.
 

Shocker98GT

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justinschmidt1 said:
it is true that a centri blower is more efficient at higher rpms right?

So when your at the track running the car from like 4500-6k all the way down the track it only makes sense that a car with a vortech at 9 psi would be faster than a KB car with 9 psi since the vortech car will be making more power all the way down the track.

This is assuming both cars are launching at like 5k and can actually hook.

In theory with the characteristics of the blowers that should be true. But the main problem in these cars is that the factory intakes on are a bottleneck to a centrifugal supercharger (or turbo) reaching it's full potential. If you had a good intake like the Fox Lake P-51, an extrude honed bullitt intake, etc., then it'd be a different story but a stock PI isn't able to fully take advantage of a centrifugal's benefits. Look at even the turbo cars, ones that are in the 400rwhp region, they 480ish rwtq around 4000 rpm in a lot of applications, torque curve falls off pretty quick and consequently peak power isn't what it could be. It's pretty indicative of how much a restriction the stock intake is because a turbo car should murder a KB car in high rpms due to the efficiency difference. Heads and stock cams are part of that bottleneck as well.

The Kenne Bells replace said manifold so really they remove one bigger restriction and both applications at 9psi the Kenne Bell even makes more top end power in the 5000-6000 region on top of the added low end torque. Apples to apples most KB cars make in the 400rwhp region after a good 9psi tune like from T&J or similar, centri cars in the 400 region are pulleying down, intercooling, adding boost pipes, and turning around 10-11psi to get in the 400 region.

Of course, keep in mind boost is just indicative of the airflow your heads/intake/cams/exhaust are capable of. Put the same blower, pulley, etc on two engines, say a NPI vs a PI, the more restrictive (NPI) one will show more boost just because the set amount of airflow is, for example, 9psi higher than the engine would flow if it were naturally aspirated. Port the heads, etc. boost level will drop even though the level of airflow is the same. So a KB at 9psi can be outflowing a Vortech at 11 for example, just because the intake is that much of a restriction compared to the KB intake. Until you upgrade the intake, cams, heads, you really can't take advantage of a centri setup like you otherwise could. Once you do all that, you're going to need to build the bottom end, upgrade the fuel system, and all other odds and ends anyway and once all that is done the centri does outdo them up top. If you want to make big power in the long run, something like a T-trim or Novi 2000 is a good investment though because once you get the engine and fuel setup in place you can make more power in the long run.
 

willnerd

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I'm pretty sure he has a 95 so that being said you guys are arguing about two different cars. I think all of you are right, but he has a 5.0. I have the vortech on mine and I finally like it. The car was a Aode with a stock converter at that point I should have bought the KB. Now that I've done the Tremec swap the Vortech is the best choice. But this is just my opinion.
 

Shocker98GT

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willnerd said:
I'm pretty sure he has a 95 so that being said you guys are arguing about two different cars. I think all of you are right, but he has a 5.0. I have the vortech on mine and I finally like it. The car was a Aode with a stock converter at that point I should have bought the KB. Now that I've done the Tremec swap the Vortech is the best choice. But this is just my opinion.

Yeah brain fart on my behalf. Heads are the bottleneck on 5.0Ls regardless of the supercharger used.
 

justinschmidt1

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lol..

you know ...really its all personal preferance.


i want to boost at higher rpms and be pushed back in the seat so I can feel like a supra :blah2:
 

CanaryGT

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justinschmidt1 said:
lol..

you know ...really its all personal preferance.


i want to boost at higher rpms and be pushed back in the seat so I can feel like a supra :blah2:

I like that one....
 

LAFENATU

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CanaryGT said:
justinschmidt1 said:
lol..

you know ...really its all personal preferance.


i want to boost at higher rpms and be pushed back in the seat so I can feel like a supra :blah2:

I like that one....

Pound for pound, you'll make more power with a Centrifugal on any pushrod motor.

Kenne Bell S/C are nothing other then heat pumps on pushrods. Unlike the newer cobras/mach 1 etc, there is no intercooler. Avg temps on a Vortech/Paxton will be consistantly cooler and not buy like ~10 or 15 degrees but more like 40 - 50 degrees.

Kenne Bell with Methanol injection will get you in the boat of a centri but at that point the Kenne Bell can only spin so far with a pushrod setup.

There is a reason why NMRA/NMCA pushrods don't use Kenne Bell, they are not efficent at all.
 

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