Which swap?? *POLL*

[95DarkGreenGTS]

Theres a reason why chevy is bankrupt and Ford is not. FORD is BETTER!

I seriously hope you are intelligent enough to distinguish the difference between Chevrolet's engine development team and their financing department. Your post clearly does not reflect that amount of intelligence.

Its lame seeing ppl put chevy motors in a Ford. And you would be one of those un intelligent ppl who would. Your post clear shows how lame you are.
But I will give it to you as saying go with a supper charger and if he dont like it change it then.

 

[95PGTTech]

You didn't answer my question, you just beat around the bush.

It depends on what he wants to do with the car. Chevy swaps aren't end-all-be-all, it's completely unnecessary for his intended use of the car and his desires.

I, on the other hand, am into competitive road racing, and I want to get into wheel-to-wheel, and I want to WIN. So I'll make you a deal...since you find chevy motors so lame, you find me a motor that isn't lame, but it needs to fit the following characteristics:

1. it needs to weigh 200lbs. less than my 4.6 4V fully dressed
2. it needs to make 450HP/400TQ, and it needs to make that torque from 3000rpm-6000rpm
3. it needs to be 9000rpm capable
4. it needs to be able to hold up to (at minimum) 4 events without refreshing.
5. it needs to be more easily serviced than my current 4.6 4V
6. parts for it need to be widely available for basic replacements (gaskets, etc.) at local AAP, Autozone, etc.

You find me a motor, any motor, that fits that bill, that you don't find "lame" and you let me know. By the way, the class has already proven 351 based stuff fails number 1, and 302 based stuff fails number 4 when it makes number 3, and vice versa. Production blocks only, btw. The kings of the class used to actually be 4.6 2Vs because of the massive torque under the curve they produce and their less weight compared to the 4V...now everybody up front is SBC based, LSx or otherwise.

When you drive a street car like you do, you have choices. You can have preferences, you can do things 90%. You can modify your car to go faster, but keep your A/C to be comfortable. You can put some springs in the car to low it, and look cool, and handle a little better, without going so stupid high with the rates every bump is a trip to the chiropractor. When you make the choice to race the car, seriously, and you want to win, you lose choices. You lose bang/buck, you lose a lot of cool, a lot of comfortable, a lot of good looking brand new car factor, and sometimes a lot of fun.

I'm done preaching. The only people's opinion I care about is the guys I'm racing against, and they understand the mentality. They've all made sacrifices they probably didn't want to make - I'm not excited about taking a car I love and cutting the door shells out. But winning is winning, nothing else matters - especially stupid kids from LA who are never going to see a racetrack calling you lame.

 

[mikey94gt]

You didn't answer my question, you just beat around the bush.

It depends on what he wants to do with the car. Chevy swaps aren't end-all-be-all, it's completely unnecessary for his intended use of the car and his desires.

I, on the other hand, am into competitive road racing, and I want to get into wheel-to-wheel, and I want to WIN. So I'll make you a deal...since you find chevy motors so lame, you find me a motor that isn't lame, but it needs to fit the following characteristics:

1. it needs to weigh 200lbs. less than my 4.6 4V fully dressed
2. it needs to make 450HP/400TQ, and it needs to make that torque from 3000rpm-6000rpm
3. it needs to be 9000rpm capable
4. it needs to be able to hold up to (at minimum) 4 events without refreshing.
5. it needs to be more easily serviced than my current 4.6 4V
6. parts for it need to be widely available for basic replacements (gaskets, etc.) at local AAP, Autozone, etc.

You find me a motor, any motor, that fits that bill, that you don't find "lame" and you let me know. By the way, the class has already proven 351 based stuff fails number 1, and 302 based stuff fails number 4 when it makes number 3, and vice versa. Production blocks only, btw. The kings of the class used to actually be 4.6 2Vs because of the massive torque under the curve they produce and their less weight compared to the 4V...now everybody up front is SBC based, LSx or otherwise.

When you drive a street car like you do, you have choices. You can have preferences, you can do things 90%. You can modify your car to go faster, but keep your A/C to be comfortable. You can put some springs in the car to low it, and look cool, and handle a little better, without going so stupid high with the rates every bump is a trip to the chiropractor. When you make the choice to race the car, seriously, and you want to win, you lose choices. You lose bang/buck, you lose a lot of cool, a lot of comfortable, a lot of good looking brand new car factor, and sometimes a lot of fun.

I'm done preaching. The only people's opinion I care about is the guys I'm racing against, and they understand the mentality. They've all made sacrifices they probably didn't want to make - I'm not excited about taking a car I love and cutting the door shells out. But winning is winning, nothing else matters - especially stupid kids from LA who are never going to see a racetrack calling you lame.

lol, so true. the stupid 4.6 4cams blow up too when road raced, by the way.

 

[BlkoutGT]

Probably the easiest way to go would be to do a aftermarket block 331 or 347 and put a turbo/supercharger and throw a bunch of boost on her. But 351 swaps are just too cool. Comes down to your budget realy.

 

[98GTnSC]

i agree with these guys. if its just a DD with drags everyonce n a while and sum street action go with a 331(since u already hav it). otherwise i say DEF go with the LSx. i mean u cud carb an LS if u wanted real simplicity. thats wut im looking into now. either a carbed LS1 or the 350 thats n the shop now. LSX wud b more bang 4 the buck. EVERY1 SHOULD know that. but u have hardcore i bleed ford blue guys that will NEVER give credit where credit is due. but id go 331 for wut ur using it 4 otherwise go LSX

 

[BlackCobra50]

You didn't answer my question, you just beat around the bush.

It depends on what he wants to do with the car. Chevy swaps aren't end-all-be-all, it's completely unnecessary for his intended use of the car and his desires.

I, on the other hand, am into competitive road racing, and I want to get into wheel-to-wheel, and I want to WIN. So I'll make you a deal...since you find chevy motors so lame, you find me a motor that isn't lame, but it needs to fit the following characteristics:

1. it needs to weigh 200lbs. less than my 4.6 4V fully dressed
2. it needs to make 450HP/400TQ, and it needs to make that torque from 3000rpm-6000rpm
3. it needs to be 9000rpm capable
4. it needs to be able to hold up to (at minimum) 4 events without refreshing.
5. it needs to be more easily serviced than my current 4.6 4V
6. parts for it need to be widely available for basic replacements (gaskets, etc.) at local AAP, Autozone, etc.

You find me a motor, any motor, that fits that bill, that you don't find "lame" and you let me know. By the way, the class has already proven 351 based stuff fails number 1, and 302 based stuff fails number 4 when it makes number 3, and vice versa. Production blocks only, btw. The kings of the class used to actually be 4.6 2Vs because of the massive torque under the curve they produce and their less weight compared to the 4V...now everybody up front is SBC based, LSx or otherwise.

When you drive a street car like you do, you have choices. You can have preferences, you can do things 90%. You can modify your car to go faster, but keep your A/C to be comfortable. You can put some springs in the car to low it, and look cool, and handle a little better, without going so stupid high with the rates every bump is a trip to the chiropractor. When you make the choice to race the car, seriously, and you want to win, you lose choices. You lose bang/buck, you lose a lot of cool, a lot of comfortable, a lot of good looking brand new car factor, and sometimes a lot of fun.

I'm done preaching. The only people's opinion I care about is the guys I'm racing against, and they understand the mentality. They've all made sacrifices they probably didn't want to make - I'm not excited about taking a car I love and cutting the door shells out. But winning is winning, nothing else matters - especially stupid kids from LA who are never going to see a racetrack calling you lame.

OWNED!! :headbang:

 

[BlackCobra50]

So you all think putting in a s/c 331 with a t-56 would be cheaper than putting in a 6.0 lq4 with a t-56????

 

[95PGTTech]

So you all think putting in a s/c 331 with a t-56 would be cheaper than putting in a 6.0 lq4 with a t-56????

depending on how much you do yourself, I think the lq4 would be significantly cheaper, especially since you're a 94/95 car. the difference is the first choice allows you to do a little here and a little there and gives you the stupid powerful fun street car feeling a supercharger does. it requires significantly less DIY/engineering

 

[BlackCobra50]

why would it matter if my car is a 94-95 for the lq4?

would it be better to buy an already built 331 than add the s/c or build my engine up?

how does the s/c 331 allow a little here and there?

i do like the idea of a blown 331 though. estimated power it would have (rwhp)?

 

[95PGTTech]

when doing the ls1 swap (for a modular guy, 96-04), you need to find a 94/95 brake booster and master cylinder, steering rack, etc. you already have that stuff.

because the motor is already in the car, you can do it little by little. start by adding the supercharger and getting it tuned. figure out with the tuner what maf you need, what injectors, what fuel pumps, get it running right on the stock motor. later, sort the suspension out in a weekend, spend a weekend doing the T56 swap.

at that point, if you're still in need of more power, buy the bullet and install it. get it broken in, get it tuned, and put a smaller pulley on it.

you should be able to make 350+ to the rear tires through the stock motor and your exhaust now easily, without risking blowing it up. 450+ with the 331 (block limited)

 

[mikey94gt]

Ive seen 409 on the stock engine with a V1 S Trim on 13# boost. it lifted a head gasket. we went back later and made 414 ish on an o-ringed stock engine. this was in a 93GT with fuel rails and twin pumps in the tank, 42# injectors, through a Ram HD clutch.

 

[BlackCobra50]

So you're saying I should throw a s/c on my motor before I make it a 331? I'll have to pull the engine to stroke it to a 331 anyways so why not do that first, than put the s/c on it, than figure out what maf, injectors, etc, it would need.

The only thing I'm concerned with is doing all this to my current block since it has 100k+ miles on it and idk how strong it is. I mean it seems pretty strong now but its pretty much stock.

 

[95PGTTech]

So you're saying I should throw a s/c on my motor before I make it a 331? I'll have to pull the engine to stroke it to a 331 anyways so why not do that first, than put the s/c on it, than figure out what maf, injectors, etc, it would need.

The only thing I'm concerned with is doing all this to my current block since it has 100k+ miles on it and idk how strong it is. I mean it seems pretty strong now but its pretty much stock.

mine has 122K, no issues. so long as it passes a compression test, there is no difference between a bone stock 100K mile motor and a bone stock 422 mile motor.

Yes, start with the S/C. you may find that the supercharger kit on the stock motor with a tune is sufficient power for you - at almost half the cost. trust me, break down the big project into smaller, more manageable projects...it will keep your car from going off the road for long periods of time, it will make the light at the end of the tunnel seem a lot closer. it will make you appreciate the direct gains and the money spent. the mechanical skills you acquire and the tools you purchase to do the small stuff like suspension install, supercharger install, fuel system, longtubes, t56 will really help and make you a lot more confident when you go to swap a motor in.

my point is, really, that your thread is which motor swap...you might not need one for your goals. don't jump to race your car out, there are things on previous cars, like deleting A/C, I went back and wish I didn't do.

 

[mikey94gt]

The car I am talking about had 133+ on it, no problems. his car pulled pretty damn hard, leaves my NA 302 with heads, cam, intake in the dust. the last time I rode in it, he was making 380hp and 400tq. with the 42# injectors, twin pumps and a TrickFLow intake. forgot about that item, its been on the car since he had it.

95PGttech has a good point. change one thing at a time (add blower and accys to make it run) to see if you like/dislike the change. ya, it would be cool to have a supercharged 331, but its easier to sort problems when you upgrade each part at once. besides, cars were meant to be driven, and you dont wanna work on yours all the time, do you?

 

[BlackCobra50]

No I don't want to work on it all the time. I do however, need to put the T-56 in first because my tranny doesn't go in reverse now.

My goal (for horsepower) is between 400-500rwhp. I know a stock 5.0 with a s/c will MAYBE break 300rwhp, thats why the 331 is probably necessary. I would like to break into 11's with it. To get into 11's, I figured I'd need a s/c 331, lt's, cam, and an intake (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't really want to spray it either (maybe in the future if I get bored with it).

 

[95PGTTech]

No I don't want to work on it all the time. I do however, need to put the T-56 in first because my tranny doesn't go in reverse now.

My goal (for horsepower) is between 400-500rwhp. I know a stock 5.0 with a s/c will MAYBE break 300rwhp, thats why the 331 is probably necessary. I would like to break into 11's with it. To get into 11's, I figured I'd need a s/c 331, lt's, cam, and an intake (correct me if I'm wrong). I don't really want to spray it either (maybe in the future if I get bored with it).

your stock block will easily make 400-500rwhp. you'd easily get into the 10s with the modification list you have there. a s/c kit on the stock 5.0 will make anything from 250whp right out of the box to well over 400whp with upgraded pulley and supporting mods - I'm not suggesting running that power level on the stock motor for long, but it could make that power.

as far as what you need, you could go from that power level to upgraded headunit, pulley, more fuel, etc. to just a stock 5.0 with rods and pistons in it and make 500whp+ plenty enough to split the block. it wouldn't be efficient, but that's the benefit of boost. a 331 with an off the shelf very mild cam and an out of the box aftermarket head and intake manifold, nothing fancy no big money needed, will make 500whp all day long.

but start small, like you said, handle the t56 swap first. good weekend project. quite a bit of cash too, small increments don't hurt so bad.

 

[BlackCobra50]

Would my block still split around 500whp even if I stroke it to a 331? If my list would put me close to the block limit than I'll have to change a few plans than, dont wanna split the block lol. Maybe just stroke it, lt's, s/c and maybe a cam.

The T-56 will probably be around 1500-2000 bucks, so that'll put a hault on anything else for a while lol. Will the stock bellhousing bolt up or will I need a new one?

 

[95PGTTech]

Sorry, I don't know anything about 5.0 T56 setups, but here's a great article on it.
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/tech/mmfp_0701_ford_mustang_t56_transmission/index.html

The block issue is why I suggested this basic, modular path of upgrade. The consensus for 5.0 block splitting is somewhere 500-550whp, conditions depending. One of the major factors is RPM - those high-revving 9000rpm N/A race motors really destroy the main caps easily. Girdles are proven useless/ineffective, they just help keep all the pieces in one place when it explodes. That's also why I suggested stopping in the end around 450whp.

The block is the block regardless of your stroker motor. All you're doing is taking your stock block, having it bored out thirty thousandths of an inch, and dropping in a crank and connecting rods which have a little longer throw to them. You're not changing the block at all. The big advantage is the forged pistons and rods are made of a denser metal which is more capable of taking the abuse your supercharger is putting on those parts. But the block is still the factory block.

Scenario: you buy s-trim supercharger kit. get it dyno'd around 250whp out of the box. Later add LTs, pulley, MAF, injectors, fuel system, redyno. 375whp. At that point, with everything else done, all that is left is the motor. With that in mind, you can say to yourself:

1) I'm happy now, 375whp is a ton of power. Or, I cannot afford more.
2) I want 75 more whp and I'll be happy.
3) I want more than 75whp, I want a lot more power.

In scenario 2, you purchase the 331 stroker kit and like I said above a mild cam and head, intake manifold package. Hell, you might be the one person in that case who I suggest buying GT40 stuff, since you don't need massive airflow the point for you of going into the motor is to replace the rods/pistons. Stroking to 331 is nice but only because the cost is about the same as just buying 302 forged rods and pistons.

In scenario 3, you buy an aftermarket 302-based block. you upgrade to a ysi, you buy a top end brand 331 stroker kit, a custom ed curtis cam, you have a professional go through a set of afr 205 heads and a trickflow track heat intake, and you go back to the dyno shooting for mid 600s












start small, work out the t56 issue first.

 

[ALS97GT]

id say do the ls1 swap and put a s/c on that :tongue3:

but any way you go you will be satisfied. i know a guy running the 03 cobra setup in a 95 and one with the 351 and they both love it.

itd be different to see the ls1 swap though!!

 

[mikey94gt]

it would be different to see the LSX swap, for sure. theres a guy running a 68 Camaro with a corvette LS2 under the hood, it looks like it belongs there, the way he did it.