5.0 vs 4.6

[94twinscrew]

When i say the 5.0 is a POS i do so because the BLOCK becomes the weak link after ~ 500-550whp. Most people will never get that high . . but if you want to make 600-700whp, i'd rather be using a 3.8lv6 then a stock 5.0 block, sure you can get a man-o-war block or something bu5 then your putting ~$2,000 into just your BLOCK.

that being said the stock internals of a 5.0 do go farther then the 4.6, but if both are forged, the 5.0 will bite the dust first.

The thing is,any block that is pre 4v, typically will give up the ghost after 600whp....5.0's and 2v 4.6's. If I want to make 600-700whp,I'd do a 4v swap.(least amount of effort) ...and I'm assuming that you weren't serious about the 3.8 tolerating that hp level :dunno:

Atleast we all can be proud and agree on one basic thing....our engines can be modded to achieve power levels that exceed more than double it's original output,without doing too much internal revamping. We can all knock which one is better till we're blue in the face,but no matter how you slice it,...for about 5-6k bucks in mods on either motor,you can honestly tell people that you make enough power to split a block,and destroy most cars on the street >

.....even at both engines average breaking points of 500-550whp,which translates into over 575-635 flywheel hp.....that's more hp than most top end exotics come with,and we didn't have to spend over $150k to get it imp2: GOD I LOVE STANGS :bunny3:

Are you kidding about the 2v blocks giving up at 600whp? please enlighten me with the secret knowledge you have that the 4v cast iron blocks are any different then 2v cast iron blocks. Because I know for a fact they are no different. Its true that some of the years the 4v has had an aluminum block either Teksid or WAP, but even the the mighty 03-04 cobras had the exact same cast iron block that the 2v's had. I know plenty of 03-04 cobra's well over the 800whp that are using the stock cast iron block and have never and will never experience a block failure. Go over to MPH and see how many forged 2v's with the stock blocks are above 600whp sometimes 200+ over that, for that matter, Tims personal race car makes a little over 800 on the cast iron block. For that matter please show me one instance of a 2v or 4v cast iron block failure, I doubt you will find any. However I could find hundreds if not thousands of cases of 5.0L block failure. One of the main reasons built 2v and 4v switch to the aluminum blocks is the weight savings offered. Lets face it the rods are terrible in the 2v's but the blocks are far far superior to anything the 5.0 ever had. As far as engines go the 5.0 is outdated at this point, and while yes it was cheap to mod, it lacks the reliability the modulars have proven. There are crown vic taxis all over NYC with 400k+ miles on them, which are still running strong.

Um,I never said that the blocks were any different,or one being stronger....just that one platform has crap internals,while the other has forged.
If you read all of my other post,you would know that this was more geared to piston and rod failure on the 2v's vs 5.0's.....and as I said before,once built with forged internals,it's a different story. My statement about preferring a 03 cobra motor over a 2v was because of it's forged internals and better airflow,not the strength of the block.....notice the "(least amount of effort)" side note. Also,what I said about ''any block that is pre 4v, typically will give up the ghost after 600whp....5.0's and 2v 4.6's'' was deemed towards motors with stock internals,not built vt engines or cobra motors with forged rods,ect. Besides,if you know anything about building engines,you'd know that the only real reason for block failure is mainly due from high rpm rotational vibration,not tensile block strength.(that must be my secret knowledge) ....but I guess when a stock 2v splits the block it's only because it threw a rod.....and when a 5.0 does the same,it must be due to the block's weak strength,and not from the rod protruding out. The main reason why forged mod motors handle more power,is due to the fact that there are far less parasitic vibrational harmonics (PVH)thrown at the rotating assembly because of it's OHC design......but maybe the countless engine manufactuers don't know what they're doing,and you're right.....it's all about the blocks

 

[performance red]

When i say the 5.0 is a POS i do so because the BLOCK becomes the weak link after ~ 500-550whp. Most people will never get that high . . but if you want to make 600-700whp, i'd rather be using a 3.8lv6 then a stock 5.0 block, sure you can get a man-o-war block or something bu5 then your putting ~$2,000 into just your BLOCK.

that being said the stock internals of a 5.0 do go farther then the 4.6, but if both are forged, the 5.0 will bite the dust first.

The thing is,any block that is pre 4v, typically will give up the ghost after 600whp....5.0's and 2v 4.6's. If I want to make 600-700whp,I'd do a 4v swap.(least amount of effort) ...and I'm assuming that you weren't serious about the 3.8 tolerating that hp level :dunno:

Atleast we all can be proud and agree on one basic thing....our engines can be modded to achieve power levels that exceed more than double it's original output,without doing too much internal revamping. We can all knock which one is better till we're blue in the face,but no matter how you slice it,...for about 5-6k bucks in mods on either motor,you can honestly tell people that you make enough power to split a block,and destroy most cars on the street >

.....even at both engines average breaking points of 500-550whp,which translates into over 575-635 flywheel hp.....that's more hp than most top end exotics come with,and we didn't have to spend over $150k to get it imp2: GOD I LOVE STANGS :bunny3:

Are you kidding about the 2v blocks giving up at 600whp? please enlighten me with the secret knowledge you have that the 4v cast iron blocks are any different then 2v cast iron blocks. Because I know for a fact they are no different. Its true that some of the years the 4v has had an aluminum block either Teksid or WAP, but even the the mighty 03-04 cobras had the exact same cast iron block that the 2v's had. I know plenty of 03-04 cobra's well over the 800whp that are using the stock cast iron block and have never and will never experience a block failure. Go over to MPH and see how many forged 2v's with the stock blocks are above 600whp sometimes 200+ over that, for that matter, Tims personal race car makes a little over 800 on the cast iron block. For that matter please show me one instance of a 2v or 4v cast iron block failure, I doubt you will find any. However I could find hundreds if not thousands of cases of 5.0L block failure. One of the main reasons built 2v and 4v switch to the aluminum blocks is the weight savings offered. Lets face it the rods are terrible in the 2v's but the blocks are far far superior to anything the 5.0 ever had. As far as engines go the 5.0 is outdated at this point, and while yes it was cheap to mod, it lacks the reliability the modulars have proven. There are crown vic taxis all over NYC with 400k+ miles on them, which are still running strong.

Um,I never said that the blocks were any different,or one being stronger....just that one platform has crap internals,while the other has forged.
If you read all of my other post,you would know that this was more geared to piston and rod failure on the 2v's vs 5.0's.....and as I said before,once built with forged internals,it's a different story. My statement about preferring a 03 cobra motor over a 2v was because of it's forged internals and better airflow,not the strength of the block.....notice the "(least amount of effort)" side note. Also,what I said about ''any block that is pre 4v, typically will give up the ghost after 600whp....5.0's and 2v 4.6's'' was deemed towards motors with stock internals,not built vt engines or cobra motors with forged rods,ect. Besides,if you know anything about building engines,you'd know that the only real reason for block failure is mainly due from high rpm rotational vibration,not tensile block strength.(that must be my secret knowledge) ....but I guess when a stock 2v splits the block it's only because it threw a rod.....and when a 5.0 does the same,it must be due to the block's weak strength,and not from the rod protruding out. The main reason why forged mod motors handle more power,is due to the fact that there are far less parasitic vibrational harmonics (PVH)thrown at the rotating assembly because of it's OHC design......but maybe the countless engine manufactuers don't know what they're doing,and you're right.....it's all about the blocks

I understand your talking about the engine as a whole package which includes the rods and pistons, but I was talking just about the blocks themselves. Other then the 03/04 cobra and the 85-92 5.0's forged pistons no SN95 or fox mustang has ever had forged internals. My point was directed at the fact that lets say I was going to build a 750whp 5.0 and a 750whp 4.6 2v or 4v in the 5.0 I would need to upgrade rods, more then likely pistons, crank, and the block itself to safely run that power level so lets add that up $2000 for a dart block or $2500 for a man o war block and another $1800 for the internals = $3800-$4300. Versus the 4.6 where all is needed is the crank, rods, and pistons which can be had at VT for $2495 fully assembled with a new block. Now you tell me, which is a better engine to build to high hp levels? And as far as your "if I wanted to make 600-700whp you would do a 4v swap", that would cost you far far more money then just building a 2v to those power levels. You could go out and buy a novi 2000 and a forged 2v SB and make 650+ easy, throw some ported heads and cams and I would bet you could be at 800. A 4v swap usually ends up being more expensive and time consuming then just building up what you already had. Yes its true 4v respond better to modifications then a 2v will, but most of the time a 2v can be made to handle more then would ever be necessary on the street. Tim Barth has an 800+whp street 5-speed 2v that runs 9's in street trim. Jfitz has a 2v that should be running high 8's this season. If a 4v swap was more practical and cheaper then why wouldnt these two have done that? Tim could have built anything he wanted for his car.

 

[94twinscrew]

I agree with most of what you are saying,but since my car is a pushrod,a ManOwar block would be cheaper alternative for my application....but I'd still like to one day do a 4v swap,if only just to be different.lol But,like I said before, block strength was never really the original topic.

 

[Stopsign32v]

I understand your talking about the engine as a whole package which includes the rods and pistons, but I was talking just about the blocks themselves. Other then the 03/04 cobra and the 85-92 5.0's forged pistons no SN95 or fox mustang has ever had forged internals. My point was directed at the fact that lets say I was going to build a 750whp 5.0 and a 750whp 4.6 2v or 4v in the 5.0 I would need to upgrade rods, more then likely pistons, crank, and the block itself to safely run that power level so lets add that up $2000 for a dart block or $2500 for a man o war block and another $1800 for the internals = $3800-$4300. Versus the 4.6 where all is needed is the crank, rods, and pistons which can be had at VT for $2495 fully assembled with a new block. Now you tell me, which is a better engine to build to high hp levels? And as far as your "if I wanted to make 600-700whp you would do a 4v swap", that would cost you far far more money then just building a 2v to those power levels. You could go out and buy a novi 2000 and a forged 2v SB and make 650+ easy, throw some ported heads and cams and I would bet you could be at 800. A 4v swap usually ends up being more expensive and time consuming then just building up what you already had. Yes its true 4v respond better to modifications then a 2v will, but most of the time a 2v can be made to handle more then would ever be necessary on the street. Tim Barth has an 800+whp street 5-speed 2v that runs 9's in street trim. Jfitz has a 2v that should be running high 8's this season. If a 4v swap was more practical and cheaper then why wouldnt these two have done that? Tim could have built anything he wanted for his car.

Dude if the 2v SOHC motor was so great don't you think the Ford GT, Cobra, and GT500 would have it in them? If I had enough money I could make my desk run 8's in the 1/4th. More than is necessary on the street is simply an opinion. 300rwhp might be plenty for Joe and Bob over there might be happy with nothing short of 1000rwhp. You are crying that a 4v swap isn't practical but yet you are trashing the 5.0 because of a stupid weak block that can be replaced with a early model block for $200. Should all of us 5.0 guys sell our cars and buy a 96 GT if we want to go fast? :rollinglaugh: If you have a 5.0 and want serious power fork out $2000, put some forged internals in it, and the SKY is the limit. Like I said...I will take a pos 5.0 over a 4.6 sohc any day of the week, month, or year. My car is good reason and proof.

 

[Hicks]

I understand your talking about the engine as a whole package which includes the rods and pistons, but I was talking just about the blocks themselves. Other then the 03/04 cobra and the 85-92 5.0's forged pistons no SN95 or fox mustang has ever had forged internals. My point was directed at the fact that lets say I was going to build a 750whp 5.0 and a 750whp 4.6 2v or 4v in the 5.0 I would need to upgrade rods, more then likely pistons, crank, and the block itself to safely run that power level so lets add that up $2000 for a dart block or $2500 for a man o war block and another $1800 for the internals = $3800-$4300. Versus the 4.6 where all is needed is the crank, rods, and pistons which can be had at VT for $2495 fully assembled with a new block. Now you tell me, which is a better engine to build to high hp levels? And as far as your "if I wanted to make 600-700whp you would do a 4v swap", that would cost you far far more money then just building a 2v to those power levels. You could go out and buy a novi 2000 and a forged 2v SB and make 650+ easy, throw some ported heads and cams and I would bet you could be at 800. A 4v swap usually ends up being more expensive and time consuming then just building up what you already had. Yes its true 4v respond better to modifications then a 2v will, but most of the time a 2v can be made to handle more then would ever be necessary on the street. Tim Barth has an 800+whp street 5-speed 2v that runs 9's in street trim. Jfitz has a 2v that should be running high 8's this season. If a 4v swap was more practical and cheaper then why wouldnt these two have done that? Tim could have built anything he wanted for his car.

Dude if the 2v SOHC motor was so great don't you think the Ford GT, Cobra, and GT500 would have it in them? If I had enough money I could make my desk run 8's in the 1/4th. More than is necessary on the street is simply an opinion. 300rwhp might be plenty for Joe and Bob over there might be happy with nothing short of 1000rwhp. You are crying that a 4v swap isn't practical but yet you are trashing the 5.0 because of a stupid weak block that can be replaced with a early model block for $200. Should all of us 5.0 guys sell our cars and buy a 96 GT if we want to go fast? :rollinglaugh: If you have a 5.0 and want serious power fork out $2000, put some forged internals in it, and the SKY is the limit. Like I said...I will take a pos 5.0 over a 4.6 sohc any day of the week, month, or year. My car is good reason and proof.

Hek your car must put down over 300
>>>AFR<<< :naughty:

 

[Stopsign32v]

328rwhp 337rwtq O0

 

[Adam]

328rwhp 337rwtq O0

And it has run what at the track?? I don't race dynos.....
Oh and by the way that same 99 GT 5-speed has already run 12.40's....with STOCK UNPORTED HEADS AND STOCK UNTOUCHED INTAKE.....would you like to now put up or shut up??? I see by your sig, you have aftermarket heads, aftermarket intake and a custom ground cam....if your 5.0 is so superior surely you have run much faster than that on motor....I mean especially since you have aftermarket heads AND intake... :

 

[Hicks]

328rwhp 337rwtq O0

And it has run what at the track?? I don't race dynos.....
Oh and by the way that same 99 GT 5-speed has already run 12.40's....with STOCK UNPORTED HEADS AND STOCK UNTOUCHED INTAKE.....would you like to now put up or shut up??? I see by your sig, you have aftermarket heads, aftermarket intake and a custom ground cam....if your 5.0 is so superior surely you have run much faster than that on motor....I mean especially since you have aftermarket heads AND intake... :

Keep talkin..... :nonono:

 

[Stopsign32v]

And it has run what at the track?? I don't race dynos.....
Oh and by the way that same 99 GT 5-speed has already run 12.40's....with STOCK UNPORTED HEADS AND STOCK UNTOUCHED INTAKE.....would you like to now put up or shut up??? I see by your sig, you have aftermarket heads, aftermarket intake and a custom ground cam....if your 5.0 is so superior surely you have run much faster than that on motor....I mean especially since you have aftermarket heads AND intake... :

:lame: Bring it to the track. Where do you live? Maybe we can set something up. I'd love to assist you with putting your foot in your mouth. O0

 

[Hicks]

^^^ :thumb:

 

[Adam]

I am gonna keep talking..because you think that your car is big shit because it makes the power that it does.....you think beating a car with stock heads and stock intake that is giving up 34 cubic inches makes your car fast? What does it run or are you gonna keep smack talking with only dyno numbers???
My whole point is....put on your stock heads, and stock intake and see what it will do...not 12.40s I guarantee...unless it weighs about 2900lbs. That is what this thread is about comparing apples to apples, not apples to oranges. So can you produce a timeslip or are you just another internet racer? The car will be at the NMRA Milan Michigan event.

Hell for that matter the guy who bought my 98 with 133,000 miles on it, ran 12.80's(car has run 12.61 and makes 247rwhp) with FULL INTERIOR(3400lbs) on slicks with an automatic trans will be there also! Like I said...dyno numbers mean nothing...except to you obviously.

 

[Stopsign32v]

You said in your last post...

Oh and by the way that same 99 GT 5-speed has already run 12.40's....with STOCK UNPORTED HEADS AND STOCK UNTOUCHED INTAKE.....would you like to now put up or shut up???

Don't worry about what I could say my car runs. Meet me at the track if you live close by. Again, where are you located? I'll even trailer my car a few states so there is no reason we can't make this happen. Getting this on video would be alot better than some E-racing. Now...Are you going to put up or shut up? utofcloset:

 

[Stopsign32v]

Hell for that matter the guy who bought my 98 with 133,000 miles on it, ran 12.80's(car has run 12.61 and makes 247rwhp) with FULL INTERIOR(3400lbs) on slicks with an automatic trans will be there also! Like I said...dyno numbers mean nothing...except to you obviously.

Bring that car too. Surely out of 2 SOHCs you can beat one 5.slow. O0

 

[Adam]

I already said, NMRA event, Milan Michigan....in June. I'll be there, both cars will be there, among host of other slow Modulars that I am sure will be happy to take you up on your offer. Are you planning on spraying your car? If so I have a few guys that can spray their 4.6's too....apples to apples.
Now lets get back to the point of the thread, are you saying that if you had stock heads, and your stock intake that you would be making the power that a 4.6 2V makes? If it can't, then that proves that with stock pistons, in stock form the 4.6 is the better combo. I believe thats what is being debated here.

 

[Stopsign32v]

Thats alittle far for me. (10 hours) :nonono:

And yes Adam that is what I am saying...My 95 5.0 with stock heads and stock intake along with stock cam would have hurt a 96 4.6 SOHC's feelings. :slap:

 

[Adam]

Thats alittle far for me. (10 hours) :nonono:

And yes Adam that is what I am saying...My 95 5.0 with stock heads and stock intake along with stock cam would have hurt a 96 4.6 SOHC's feelings. :slap:

96?? This thread says 4.6....it doesn't say 96 4.6..... :dunno: And a 99 4.6 would have hurt your cars feelings. I know the 96 was anemic, I won't argue that one bit. Well the 99 I speak of is in Peoria, Illinois, is that any closer?

 

[Hicks]

Theres always a faster car guys.
But i don't care how bad to the bone eny 4.6 can be. Theres a 5.0 out there that will rip a hole in eny of them. And Vice versa

4.6 have are cool
and 5.0's are cool to

It's all prefrence

But yall keep at it, i wanna see a race. I got money on my friend stopsign tho, He got the 5.hoe
Yall just keep it strickly cars, nothing personal. or else it needs to be stoped.
Nothing wrong with rivals, but enemies, no.

 

[justinschmidt1]

well honestly a 5.0 is better than a npi gt but a 99 and up pi 4.6 is better than a 5.0

it all depends on what you prefer...in stock form I would say a pi 4.6 is better than a stock 5.0...

ive owned a 5.0 and 4.6 and personally theyre differant engines..

i felt like the 5.0 was a more powerful engine though...but then again im still waiting to be pi :lame:

 

[Hicks]

well honestly a 5.0 is better than a npi gt but a 99 and up pi 4.6 is better than a 5.0

it all depends on what you prefer...in stock form I would say a pi 4.6 is better than a stock 5.0...

ive owned a 5.0 and 4.6 and personally theyre differant engines..

i felt like the 5.0 was a more powerful engine though...but then again im still waiting to be pi :lame:

good lookin car

 

[Stopsign32v]

96?? This thread says 4.6....it doesn't say 96 4.6..... :dunno: And a 99 4.6 would have hurt your cars feelings. I know the 96 was anemic, I won't argue that one bit. Well the 99 I speak of is in Peoria, Illinois, is that any closer?

You were crying about apples to oranges a couple posts back and now you want to compare a 95 Mustang to a 99 Mustang instead of a 95 Mustang to a 96 Mustang. :hammer: Dude do you have any clue?

And Illinois is atleast 12 hours away. Going the wrong way buddy.