Arguments about N/A vs. Boost

[justinschmidt1]

Looks like for now im gonna end up boosting it. Like i've stated multiple times, at my age, with the limited money i have, the cheaper method seems to grasp my attention.

I get where Madstangs coming from though. Having a n/a motor that puts down huge power seems so rewarding especially if you built it yourself.
Last month i met a guy outside of pepboys who had a built Chevy Nova. The engine looked clean and simple, no hidden turbo or anything. The car itself ran 10's and laid about 550rwhp through an auto n/a motor.
I talked to the guy and he took me for a ride in it, said he had been building for about a decade and doesnt see it being complete anytime soon.
He said the thing that made him the most proud though, was having built the motor up completely himself.

Sure boost is easier and seems more effective for me, but i've always wanted to build a naturally aspirated motor to beat on all the s/c and turboe'd others. It just seems more badass.
But right now, i'll stick to having fun driving my car instead of worrying about building a great motor.

Times have changes, we dont have simple pushrod motors with big cubes that can make NA power.

 

[MadStang]

Not sure what thats supposed to mean...ive ran the exact same pulley/boost since day 1 in this car and only add power with efficiency, not boost.

Ive also done every bolt on ever to my NPI including pi intake, pi cams, long tube headers, o/r mid pipe, intake, tb, plenum, under drive pulleys, tunes, etc etc.

Ive now swapped to a full PI motor and still have all those bolt ons + the edelbrock upper intake manifold.

Yea, ive got stock pi cams and stock pi heads but it really doesnt matter much since the bottom end cant handle any power anyway.

I didnt just throw a blower on the car and call it a day.

I went through NA crap and realized that it wasnt giving me the results I wanted so I decided to get some boost.

i wasn't referring to you in this regards. knew a guy with a bone stock terminator motor in a fox... he basically put a kenne bell on it, cranked the boost up as much as 91 octane would allow when that wasn't enough he went to e85 for more boost. That defeats the whole purpose of building a car for boost correctly vs. just slapping a blower on.

 

[Ferocious]

Times have changes, we dont have simple pushrod motors with big cubes that can make NA power.

Only the more thrill to building one up knowing its gonna be a challenge. At least you'll have something to brag about as opposed to just throwing a turbo/supercharger and calling it done.
But i see where you're coming from. And since you and 97stanger both have autos, i'm sure i'll be headed in the right direction if i listen to you guys if i end up going the boost route, which is likely..

 

[vermilion]

My adrenaline isnt cheap

 

[vermilion]

Is this going to turn into another 440 story? If so, i'll save myself from the rerun.

 

[MadStang]

Point is, if you wanna go fast with a 4.6 2v, dont go NA because it's not cheap.

fix't. yellow02's car is not that extreme of a setup... he could be a lot faster but that comes with a huge price tag. So yes, for the average joe, the boosted setup is better, but again, don't say N/A cannot go fast because your example leaves a lot on the table, like the N/A modular maniac himself, Al Papitto.

[video=youtube;J5pusB_tZqE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5pusB_tZqE[/video]

 

[MadStang]

Nice thread title change :rofl:

 

[the.greg]

i wasn't referring to you in this regards. knew a guy with a bone stock terminator motor in a fox... he basically put a kenne bell on it, cranked the boost up as much as 91 octane would allow when that wasn't enough he went to e85 for more boost. That defeats the whole purpose of building a car for boost correctly vs. just slapping a blower on.

Not sure how this is relevant. A kenne belled termi motor should easily hit 500 hp depending on kb unit. That in a light fox should be good for anyone, but as we all know there will never be "enough hp" we will always want more. Same as with any n/a build too, there will always be something else to make it faster. I think this is more about setting goals and deciding if you'd rather get a "sense of pride by building your own" vs finding the most cost effective way to reach those goals. For the 2v 4.6 the cheap way is boost. Not knocking your desire to build n/a, just saying Ferocious has a budget and boost will get him there easier.

P.S. Ferocious, 97 stanger and Justin have superchargers not turbos and its not as easy as just slapping on a turbo/supercharger and calling it done.

 

[justinschmidt1]

fix't. yellow02's car is not that extreme of a setup... he could be a lot faster but that comes with a huge price tag. So yes, for the average joe, the boosted setup is better, but again, don't say N/A cannot go fast because your example leaves a lot on the table, like the N/A modular maniac himself, Al Papitto.

[video=youtube;J5pusB_tZqE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5pusB_tZqE[/video]

Why post this video? I dont get it? Thats not a normal car that anyone on this site will ever build.

oohhh boosted mustangs running [video=youtube;SApphqLwCwM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SApphqLwCwM[/video]


Notice,

Point is, if you wanna go fast with a 4.6 2v, dont go NA.

thats a 5.4 4v Im assuming...

Im sure thats a cheap.....


I never said you couldnt go fast NA, but I will say it will end up costing you a shit ton more money to go fast NA than it would to just boost it

 

[justinschmidt1]

Is this going to turn into another 440 story? If so, i'll save myself from the rerun.

Your a troll.

 

[the.greg]

I was about to say thats not even a 4.6 in madstangs vid?

 

[Ferocious]

I think this is more about setting goals and deciding if you'd rather get a "sense of pride by building your own" vs finding the most cost effective way to reach those goals. For the 2v 4.6 the cheap way is boost. Not knocking your desire to build n/a, just saying Ferocious has a budget and boost will get him there easier.

This is all i've learned from this thread. Sure i'd love to build my own motor from the bottom up one day, but now is not the time.
Boost suits my needs for what im looking for right now, and thats what i plan on doing.

And sorry about the turbo/supercharger mixup, i fixed it.

 

[justinschmidt1]

i wasn't referring to you in this regards. knew a guy with a bone stock terminator motor in a fox... he basically put a kenne bell on it, cranked the boost up as much as 91 octane would allow when that wasn't enough he went to e85 for more boost. That defeats the whole purpose of building a car for boost correctly vs. just slapping a blower on.

Building a car for boost correctly? Does that exist?

The whole point is to make more power....adding boost and e85 = more power.

 

[MadStang]

Not sure how this is relevant. A kenne belled termi motor should easily hit 500 hp depending on kb unit. That in a light fox should be good for anyone, but as we all know there will never be "enough hp" we will always want more. Same as with any n/a build too, there will always be something else to make it faster. I think this is more about setting goals and deciding if you'd rather get a "sense of pride by building your own" vs finding the most cost effective way to reach those goals. For the 2v 4.6 the cheap way is boost. Not knocking your desire to build n/a, just saying Ferocious has a budget and boost will get him there easier.

P.S. Ferocious, 97 stanger and Justin have superchargers not turbos and its not as easy as just slapping on a turbo/supercharger and calling it done.

the relevance is that, the same thought process the fox owner has is the same for most of the mustang community. There are the small few who build their stuff with efficiency in mind versus looking for the Supra-type dyno queen power just by upping boost again and again without taking into consideration of WHAT the PSI of boost in the equation really means. You hit the nail on the head with the point i was trying to get across. You cannot expect to just go buy a supercharger slap it on and consider it all fine and dandy, that's where most people get into trouble. With that I'll let the boost guru's take over, I'll stick with what I'm more knowledgeable about and that's building "slow" N/A cars.

 

[justinschmidt1]

I was about to say thats not even a 4.6?

Its probably a 20k dollar motor. lol

 

[MadStang]

Building a car for boost correctly? Does that exist?

The whole point is to make more power....adding boost and e85 = more power.

You're worrying me with that statement because now your contradicting yourself. Making power EFFICIENTLY as you said is the correct way to make power. Is adding boost and e85 a way to make power? Sure, but you're putting more load on the motor than you would if you were just to free up the extra horsepower that is there by making it more efficient. That's my point.

With that I'm done, every point I make goes over your head and I really don't feel like spelling it out anymore.

 

[the.greg]

This is all i've learned from this thread. Sure i'd love to build my own motor from the bottom up one day, but now is not the time.
Boost suits my needs for what im looking for right now, and thats what i plan on doing.

And sorry about the turbo/supercharger mixup, i fixed it.

No problem man, I tried to give you advice that actually helps you meet YOUR goals, not biased info based on my personal agenda. We kinda got away from that, but glad you changed the title haha.

 

[98rocket]

Stay N/A. Unless you just want to be fast in a straight line and burn up all your money on boost. Suspension has a lot to do with speed and the fun factor. Buy a couple suspension parts also.
I can't stand when people blow all there money on HP. Then what? you have a fast car, but will it stop, turn, hell it will probably just break a weak stock part!

Do you plan on keeping the car for a while? If so, do it right.

 

[justinschmidt1]

the relevance is that, the same thought process the fox owner has is the same for most of the mustang community. There are the small few who build their stuff with efficiency in mind versus looking for the Supra-type dyno queen power just by upping boost again and again without taking into consideration of WHAT the PSI of boost in the equation really means. You hit the nail on the head with the point i was trying to get across. You cannot expect to just go buy a supercharger slap it on and consider it all fine and dandy, that's where most people get into trouble. With that I'll let the boost guru's take over, I'll stick with what I'm more knowledgeable about and that's building "slow" N/A cars.

You make no sense......what makes a 350 rwhp NA mustang not a dyno queen if it had an awful drag setup and ran 14s still?

The reason supras are dyno queens is because they put massive turbos on the things that never spool and create extremely peaky HP numbers.

Boosted mustangs are the farthest thing from peaky

 

[Rice_slayer]

Lol 2v n/a power . I kid I kid, but just for kicks, my HCI 5.0L pushrod made 270rwhp, my 4.6L 4v with a cai and longtubes *apparently* put down 298rwhp, I have no tune on it now, but I'm taking it to get re-tuned in April so I'll see then when an added o/r x and borla stinger catback will do. I did an N/A build, and making power NA is pretty bada**, but technology changes too fast, the new coyotes are making 420hp out of the box NA, a cam/intake/head ported 4v with net usually 350-370rwhp, which is sad because that is a LOT of money to do that when I can just get a procharger for $5k and make 400+rwhp all day with no drive ability concerns at all. That being said, rocking around town with a cam'd idle is pretty f*cking addicting, that is the thing I miss most about my 5.0L...

2v NA CAN make power, but ask Duffy, it ain't cheap!