Bottom end is toast - Need Guidance

Nighttrain

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Didnt check anything but motor was warrantied for like 30 days but I believe there are several clauses that you must have it run all stock and have install receipts which I obviously do not have. I really didnt want to have to pull the motor again, as I would have to purchase a cherry picker and engine stand so thats kind of out of the equation.

Sean

HF sells engine hoists and stands pretty cheap. Its your choice in the end, i have a problem giving in lol. Youll have more down time, and more expense, but in the end.....its worth it imo.
 
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Freefallin

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If you want to sell the car I would drop a stock engine then part out the other motor since it has some desirable parts in it.

Thats essentially what I did. I thought about returning the car to completely stock and selling every aftermarket part I have with the car, but it would be a long, tiring job figuring it all out just because my car has a lot of wiring, throttle cable is already ran for accufab 90mm, stuff like that.

HF sells engine hoists and stands pretty cheap. Its your choice in the end, i have a problem giving in lol. Youll have more down time, and more expense, but in the end.....its worth it imo.

At this point, I need to make a move for my career. I cant have any fun toys at the moment and need to get this out of my hair. I have a guy hopefully coming to look at it this Friday for $3500 not running with a smashed in front bumper from the damn Uhaul tow dolly (it caught caught and ripped into several different pieces.
 

Nighttrain

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Thats essentially what I did. I thought about returning the car to completely stock and selling every aftermarket part I have with the car, but it would be a long, tiring job figuring it all out just because my car has a lot of wiring, throttle cable is already ran for accufab 90mm, stuff like that.



At this point, I need to make a move for my career. I cant have any fun toys at the moment and need to get this out of my hair. I have a guy hopefully coming to look at it this Friday for $3500 not running with a smashed in front bumper from the damn Uhaul tow dolly (it caught caught and ripped into several different pieces.

I understand totally
 
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Freefallin

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UPDATE: Got both valve covers off with motor in car and zero signs of foul play. Couldn't notice and broken valve springs, or broken or popped off followers. Does this mean anything pertinent?

What next? Jack car up and bang on starter with a hammer to see if it releases?

You know the black grounding wire that runs from the starter, under the engine and then back up to the front drivers fender area? Well I INITIALLY hooked that up to the large bolt (I think this is the main fuse panel for the car right?) where other RED grounds were connected to...ultimately causing some smoke but thankfully we got the wire moved to its appropriate ground position further up on the fender a few seconds after...

Then, after the initial test drive, my mechanic buddy crawled under the car to notice the starter bolt pretty loose that holds the main ground. Could this be related?

Sean
 

Thomas_W

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First off. Red's aren't grounds, those are +12v power wires. Theres also no ground that runs from the starter to the fuse box, that is the Power wire that provides +12v power to the starter from the battery. The Ground for the starter is provided by the metal case of the starter, engine block and then finally the ground cable to the car chassis. If your Ford mechanic buddy didnt know that, you need to find a new mechanic. The stock ground wire is normally a flat braided cable on the driver side that runs from one of the motor mount bolts to a bolt on the bottom side of the driver side frame rail.

Since you shorted the main fuse panel directly to ground, you likely fried some wiring. Hopefully for you it wasnt any of the wiring in the fuse box, but i would highly recommend inspecting it to be sure.


If you get a click or a constantly tapping like sound when you turn the key, it could be a bad power connection to the starter. It could also be a bad wire from it being shorted out.


You really need to post photos of what your referring to with questions like that. Trying to diagnose issues online is damn near impossible.

Them throw in the curve ball of not nothing how or what was done in "mods" due to the experience/quality (or lack of) by previous owners, mechanics, etc and it becomes even more difficult.
 
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Freefallin

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First off. Red's aren't grounds, those are +12v power wires. Theres also no ground that runs from the starter to the fuse box, that is the Power wire that provides +12v power to the starter from the battery. The Ground for the starter is provided by the metal case of the starter, engine block and then finally the ground cable to the car chassis. If your Ford mechanic buddy didnt know that, you need to find a new mechanic. The stock ground wire is normally a flat braided cable on the driver side that runs from one of the motor mount bolts to a bolt on the bottom side of the driver side frame rail.

Since you shorted the main fuse panel directly to ground, you likely fried some wiring. Hopefully for you it wasnt any of the wiring in the fuse box, but i would highly recommend inspecting it to be sure.


If you get a click or a constantly tapping like sound when you turn the key, it could be a bad power connection to the starter. It could also be a bad wire from it being shorted out.


You really need to post photos of what your referring to with questions like that. Trying to diagnose issues online is damn near impossible.

Them throw in the curve ball of not nothing how or what was done in "mods" due to the experience/quality (or lack of) by previous owners, mechanics, etc and it becomes even more difficult.

I get it man, there are a lot of unknowns and it doesn't help that I was in a rush to write and send that last message. But I am a DIY guy and I am not formally trained in any kind of mechanical or electrical work. My passion for Mustangs and cars in general set me out to learn as much as I could for free through researching countless hours online, tapping friends and what not. That being said, I may use some incorrect terminology, or may not expain something as it SHOULD be explained, I just don't know any better you know :tongue3:?

But what I am really wondering at this very moment is what has the motor lodged, not being able to spin by hand or by ignition? Keep in mind guys, the motor DID NOT turn by hand when I was trying to do the lash adjusters; it only turned by hand once we hit the ignition withe the plugs out. I then replaced all lash adjusters, making sure to turn the crank by hand to get the cam lobes to the flats and respective pistons near the bottom of the stroke so I could then pop the followers out, inspect, and continue on my way replacing the lash adjusters.

Now, I did not do anything special with the crank(meaning place it at 9 oclock or anything like that) before I started, I simply turned the crank a couple of times by hand and popped whichever followers that showed the piston at the bottom (or near) of its stroke out, which also meant the cam lobe was more or less on it's flat, and I popped the lash adjusters out and replaced. Car fires right up, no more loud tapping just a higher pitched valvetrain noise but we all agreed it sounded healthy which it showed on the first 3 passes before dying on the dyno. And moreso, for the car to shut off at the very top of the 4th pull on the dyno and then NOT being able to be turned by hand has me thinking both times the car would not turn by hand have to be related.

Sorry, I've had a few beers and I am tired, frustrated, a bit down and more or less am tired of dealing with this issue lol. Please ignore the excessive comma use and bad overall grammar and punctuation...the IPA made me do it :mfr_omg:
 
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Freefallin

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I just remembered the tuner showed me that the car was having a hard time starting and the oil gauge wouldn't bounce straight to 40 as soon as he turned the key on. Not sure if this would be pertinent or not, just wanted to share.
 
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Freefallin

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Does it spin free with the heads off. Did you try taking the starter off of it doesnt

Haven't gotten that far yet. I will attempt to get the starter off tomorrow but I hear its a gigantic PITA to get that top bolt out...either like 2+ ft of extensions and wobble adapters or a 1/4" ratchet with deep well. hope it doesn't take too too long....
 
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Freefallin

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UPDATE:

Finally got starter off, not stuck. Motor will still not rotate by hand (yes, e-brake was disengages and car was in neutral). Took a peak inside of the dust cover on the trans and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary, so I went back to look inside the plug holes and after much closer examination, I believe what I see when I look through the plug holes on cylinders #1 & #5 are valves, as i can feel the shape of the valve with a screwdriver and they are way up against the plug holes.

If this is the case, then I will have to remove the heads to inspect the damage. I am praying I just need a couple new valves but we will see I guess. But since the motor will not turn by hand right now, how do I take off the heads? I tried taking some photos of the what I believe is the valve extending out of the head which is what I am seeing instead of the piston through the plug holes of #1 & 5, but they didn't turn out well at all. Any and all help and advice appreciate guys. I want to get this thing up and running for good.

Remember, I have heads I think I can use if need be, but if I can just replace a couple of valves and the current heads and pistons are good, I will just replace them and throw on a new timing kit and be off and away. If those 2 valves kissed pistons and they need to be replaced, would I be able to pull the oil pan and snake them out? I actually might have 1, maybe 2 good pistons out of my other blown up motor...could I throw those in this block or is that asking for problems?
 

Nighttrain

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For disassembly dont worry about rotating your motor. I will say this would be much easier with the motor out of the car but can be done in it. Pull the rad, fan ps pump, alt, so you can get your timing cover off easy. Unbolt the cam gears after you pull the tensioners. After youve got all that and the intake off next comes the heads. Pretty straight forward. I will say there is a reason you bent the valves, either timing was off or your cam has too high of lift. Is this a npi block? If it is did you mill the block down? Even with a high lift cam it shouldnt contact the piston with an npi unless it was decked. There is stupid amounts of room there. One more thing, if you had valve to piston contact those pistons are done. Youll see this without a doubt but make sure you dont have a broken spring. Did you put the left side cam on the left, and right on the right?
It is possible to change pistons with the motor in the car as well. Not sure if uoud have to jack the motor up to get the oil pan out from on top of the k member though, worth a try. As long as the pistons are in good shape with new rings, i dont see a problem. You definitly want to inspect your heads real good make sure the valve guides arent trashed. Imo id do valve seals while there. Hit everything real hard with assembly lube. Inspect the oil and filter for shavings all that good stuff. Quick question, i read back through some of your posts, what weight oil are you using. The ford lash adjusters are very touchy oil wise. With the valve covers off did you notice any excessive discoloration on the cams? Did you try taking the plugs out and turning it over again? Last question, can you see both valves down in both cylinders?
 

Nighttrain

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Ok went back and read more.....sorry i talk to alot of people lol, unless the salvage yard disassembled the motor i dont see how it came out of time. Shouldve been set when they pulled it. Did uou hear it run in the vic? All of that doesnt really matter though. My thoughts...put all the stock stuff back on and get ur money back unless its been more than a month.
 
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Freefallin

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It had been more than a month so fat chance getting my money back from the engine seller. Yes, looking down cylinders #1 & 5 all i see is black, and I cant see any parts of the piston like you should be able to when looking down into the plug hole. I didn't think I would have to remove radiator, just fans I thought?

Obviously the something happened to cause PTV damage. i am just scared that I am going to rip everything apart, put it back together and run into the same issue. I Just have a feeling that this car is full of problem after problem but I wish it wasn't true!
 

Nighttrain

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Take your time, ask questions, and imo dont use that ford mechanic anymore. I dont think youre getting what youre paying for. I say rad, because i dont like taking chances on messing it up, and having to pay for another. If youre comfortable leaving in there ok. Youre motor is more or less locked up so rotating it to the safe zone is outta the question. What oil weight are you using?
 
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Freefallin

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Take your time, ask questions, and imo dont use that ford mechanic anymore. I dont think you're getting what you're paying for. I say rad, because i dont like taking chances on messing it up, and having to pay for another. If youre comfortable leaving in there ok. Youre motor is more or less locked up so rotating it to the safe zone is outta the question. What oil weight are you using?

Chris is really good and its not his fault something happened. I put everything together, he more or less helped me actually install it into the car and get it running. I think I am actually taking a massive loss and trading for a 9 4GT. Body has 200k but motor was supposedly rebuilt 40k miles ago. Ran very, very hard and was shockingly quick After i made a second to third gear pull almost instantly getting in the car, it felt great from the word go. Current owner said the previus owner painted it and rebuilt the motor and that he told him it should make around 280hp (guessing to crank) and the car actually did feel like it close to that power level. The idle was just a touch lopier than a stock 5.0 and it also has full Bassani back so it sounds killer. Paint is gonna be a fun challenge to make look better and should be a fun car to drive around as I get it ready to sell. I am just happy this DeathTrap is leaving my home, my life and my presence. The car has bee nothing but a nuisance and literally taken years off of my life. I am glad this thread will hopefully be ended tomorrow.
 
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Freefallin

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I had a 95, the 5.0's are fun motors. At least youre staying in a stang. Good luck bud

Thanks brother I really appreciate the kind wishes. After everything thats happened with my job, my back and my car, you've got no idea how nice and refreshing it feels to have someone root for you!

I will likely start a new thread in the 5.0 section showing my progress so keep an eye out!

Thanks for everyone's help on here and this post. I have learned so much from you guys and really appreciate it.

Sean
 

Thomas_W

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If you dropped a valve you'll be able to tell just by pulling the galve covers. If the valve is broken, its valve spring, retainer and follower will be loose in the cover.

If you've broken something in the bottom end, you should be able to tell by draining the oil through a filter and getting big chunks of metal.

At the bare minimum, i would pull the valve covers and the front engine cover. That will give you a good look and a place to start.
 

Nighttrain

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Thanks brother I really appreciate the kind wishes. After everything thats happened with my job, my back and my car, you've got no idea how nice and refreshing it feels to have someone root for you!

I will likely start a new thread in the 5.0 section showing my progress so keep an eye out!

Thanks for everyone's help on here and this post. I have learned so much from you guys and really appreciate it.

Sean

Absolutely...did the guy go for it?
 

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