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hey thanks bob... :-D we seem to be a select few...
3 states and take a look ;-)
- Thread starter MustangChris
- Start date
MustangChris said:heat soak is the main problem, hm? ill look into that... ive called KB before and they are always willing to give information. How would I find information defending them against heat soak? I just have a spot in my heart for a KB. lol. people just seem to be afraid of themplus i can say dumb things like "my blower has more displacement than your entire motor" i was going to get "2.8L" badges for my fenders... oh yea. lol.
i was pretty much just going to use their blower and go with other stuff for everything except minor things (like the 8 rib conversion)
as for saving for heads and what not, this motor will be sitting on a stand for at LEAST a year... im having the best in denver build my cobra heads. it will basically be a fully built, fully forged 03/04 with a massive blower on it. im not sparing a penney...
most people throw bolt ons onto the car in hopes of making power just to have things fail. My rear end is already built, i will be dropping in a T56, and then this blower will be the final piece (along with supporting mods like fuel and induction system) so dont worry about durrability. the weak link will be the T56 and I will have that built shortly after the motor is dropped in.
as for tuning, 100% custom, along with a 100% custom head set up and 100% custom drive shaft :-D
unless you're running race gas, you're going to be limited by pump gas's octane. that's what limits that 2.3 combo I was talking about to 650 - it's got more in it at that boost level, but you're already pulling timing. so spending money on heads/cams/etc is truly a waste, you're going to make more power on motor but have to pull even more timing and you're going to end up at much the same power level.
I've been there/done that with cars, and to me the less you can modify to make the power is better, less stuff to fail, have fitment issues, noises, squeaks, rattles, clanks, clacks, etc. The whipple and I'm sure the KB can use the stock 8 rib 03/04 system, i would suggest going with that. More OEM parts mean less NVH issues down the road. Why is this pulley making a noise........
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95PGTTech said:MustangChris said:heat soak is the main problem, hm? ill look into that... ive called KB before and they are always willing to give information. How would I find information defending them against heat soak? I just have a spot in my heart for a KB. lol. people just seem to be afraid of them
i was pretty much just going to use their blower and go with other stuff for everything except minor things (like the 8 rib conversion)
as for saving for heads and what not, this motor will be sitting on a stand for at LEAST a year... im having the best in denver build my cobra heads. it will basically be a fully built, fully forged 03/04 with a massive blower on it. im not sparing a penney...
most people throw bolt ons onto the car in hopes of making power just to have things fail. My rear end is already built, i will be dropping in a T56, and then this blower will be the final piece (along with supporting mods like fuel and induction system) so dont worry about durrability. the weak link will be the T56 and I will have that built shortly after the motor is dropped in.
as for tuning, 100% custom, along with a 100% custom head set up and 100% custom drive shaft :-D
unless you're running race gas, you're going to be limited by pump gas's octane. that's what limits that 2.3 combo I was talking about to 650 - it's got more in it at that boost level, but you're already pulling timing. so spending money on heads/cams/etc is truly a waste, you're going to make more power on motor but have to pull even more timing and you're going to end up at much the same power level.
I've been there/done that with cars, and to me the less you can modify to make the power is better, less stuff to fail, have fitment issues, noises, squeaks, rattles, clanks, clacks, etc. The whipple and I'm sure the KB can use the stock 8 rib 03/04 system, i would suggest going with that. More OEM parts mean less NVH issues down the road. Why is this pulley making a noise........
very good point on the octane...
but i have a question:
can i possibly get more than one tune? and swap the pulleis out?
tune 1 street - premium
tune 2 street/strip -premium
tune 3 strip/pulley swap - race gas ?
Absolutely. A SCT XCAL2 holds up to three tunes.
What most tuners will do though, and what I recommend, is two tunes using the same pulley. Pull a ton of timing to make it run on pump gas and name it "PUMP". Then a "RACE" gas tune for VP103 (somewhere around a 100 octane mix, no one completely drains their fuel at the track), and add the timing back in as much as possible. There will be a LARGE power difference, and with only two tunes, there is no room for error or mistake. Your tune 2 leaves room to detonate your very expensive motor setup, you are no more protected at the track on 93 octane than you are on the street.
Changing pullies at the track isn't terribly difficult, but it is annoying. You sometimes need to change the belt too and that can be really annoying. You can further keep the power down on the street tune by cutting the rev limiter in a few hundred rpm sooner.
What most tuners will do though, and what I recommend, is two tunes using the same pulley. Pull a ton of timing to make it run on pump gas and name it "PUMP". Then a "RACE" gas tune for VP103 (somewhere around a 100 octane mix, no one completely drains their fuel at the track), and add the timing back in as much as possible. There will be a LARGE power difference, and with only two tunes, there is no room for error or mistake. Your tune 2 leaves room to detonate your very expensive motor setup, you are no more protected at the track on 93 octane than you are on the street.
Changing pullies at the track isn't terribly difficult, but it is annoying. You sometimes need to change the belt too and that can be really annoying. You can further keep the power down on the street tune by cutting the rev limiter in a few hundred rpm sooner.
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the blower maxes out at something like, 6000 RPMs... so i was going to have the heads built for 6500, to have a buffer.
as for retarding timing, is that the only way to work the tunes? or can i put different pullies? for example, leave timing and put on a 5 PSI pulley, then leave timing and put on a 10 PSI pulley with pump gas?
i like your point of only having two tunes... it def. keeps things simple and i would hate for a $500.00 rod to shoot through my $4,000 heads. LOL!
as for retarding timing, is that the only way to work the tunes? or can i put different pullies? for example, leave timing and put on a 5 PSI pulley, then leave timing and put on a 10 PSI pulley with pump gas?
i like your point of only having two tunes... it def. keeps things simple and i would hate for a $500.00 rod to shoot through my $4,000 heads. LOL!
You could do it like that, to an extent. I mean, the pulley combo I stated above is about the most you're going to be able to get on 93 octane and have enough timing to have some grunt down low and snappy throttle response. You can step up the timing and down the pulley or step down the timing and up the pulley for a more aggressive tune staying with pump gas.
If you mean have like
WEAK
STRONG
RACE
Where weak and strong are both 93 octane with the same timing but weak is 12lbs. and strong is 22lbs., yes it could be done. But, you know yourself, you are never going to just drive the car around on 12lbs. At some point, usually around the 20+ psi range, you just run out of octane and you have to give up either boost or timing, or add race gas. And again, you're swapping pullies, and probably belts for that big of a jump.
If you mean have like
WEAK
STRONG
RACE
Where weak and strong are both 93 octane with the same timing but weak is 12lbs. and strong is 22lbs., yes it could be done. But, you know yourself, you are never going to just drive the car around on 12lbs. At some point, usually around the 20+ psi range, you just run out of octane and you have to give up either boost or timing, or add race gas. And again, you're swapping pullies, and probably belts for that big of a jump.
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95PGTTech said:
well, jsut for the record, here in colorado we run higher boost levels due to the altitude.
but thats neither here nor there... lol. i get what your saying.
what if i want Street and Race. i cant do low boost low octane same timing then high boost high octane same timing?
i guess thats when that detonation thing comes into play, huh?
will putting high grade gas when its not needed hurt anything? i doubt it will, but i thought i would check...
for example: 93 octain into a geo metro which normally takes... . .80? lol.
well generally a race tune is made by using the same boost level but cranking the timing way up and pulling it slightly leaner. if you're still not detonating the tuner may elect to go one size smaller on the upper pulley but it's a car by car basis. the timing is all adjusted in the tune it's nothing you have to do.
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why would they lean it?
Yesterday I bought a complete '98 teksid shortblock block that was freshly rebuilt. Now its time to find some 4v c heads and intake. Man, you sure had to drive for that block, I had to drive 4 miles lol! You were within about an hour and a half of me.
D3VST8R96GT
Well-Known Member
MustangChris said:
how about "3.4L" whipple has one .....thats a mammoth
US Soldier(stang 98)
Well-Known Member
Looks like its going to be badass
How much do those big blowers weigh? I was curious....my little FRPP blower weighs 55lbs so i'm still losing some weight off the front with the aluminum block. The KB and Whipple have to be more as big as they are.
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95PGTTech said:
but i thought the best fuel/air ratio was like 14:1 or something? why lean it? isnt that dangerous?
95PGTTech said:
dont tempt me.... lol
MustangChris said:95PGTTech said:
but i thought the best fuel/air ratio was like 14:1 or something? why lean it? isnt that dangerous?
95PGTTech said:
dont tempt me.... lol
In my experience tuning, 12.0 - 12.5:1 always makes the best power on positive displacement blowers. I'll take it up to 12.5 - 13.0:1 on 100 octane mix. Lean is dangerous when you don't have octane protection (against detonation) yes, but leaner mixtures usually always gain more power, to an extent. The octane protection really lets you ramp up the timing good which you're going to feel in a seat of the pants type gain.
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so less fuel would mean that the comressed (and hot) air is less likely to detonate, which lets us push in more compressed air? more boost=more power am i getting that right?
94 Sn-95GT
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14.7:1 is "stoich"
Thats suppose to be optimum AFR.
When you start talking performance that gets thrown under the bus. :headbang: :headbang:
Thats suppose to be optimum AFR.
When you start talking performance that gets thrown under the bus. :headbang: :headbang:
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