95 gt starting-electrical problem HELP!!!

Mach5Racing4 · May 31, 2007

there is the red power cable going to the pos. terminal on the starter solonoid and a black wire with a spade connector going to the spade on the solonoid. i just used a jumper cable to go from the battery to the spade on the solonoid. when that was connected it turned over. but then i used a jumper cable to ground the starter bolt to the frame and it started sparking. so the entire engine trans and drive shaft have power running through them. i have never seen anything like it. all i can think of is the wire i used from the summit racing trunk mount battery kit has a hole in it and its grounding to the frame. has anyone had this happened or heard of this? thanks

Mach5Racing4 · Jun 1, 2007

i checked the extended battery cable and there were no breaks in it at all. i followed the other pos cable that goes from the underhood fuse box to the starter solonoid and there are no breaks there either. where else do i have a pos cable that could be sending power to the engine and drivetrain. (not cables to the engine. the actual engine trans and driveshaft are pos.) i checked all the wires i can think of and nothing. the car was fine one minute then this problem all of a sudden. anyone have and ideas? :dunno:

Fox · Jun 1, 2007

Mach
If you have a volt meter, make sure your leads are hooked up properly to the meter ( pos to pos, neg to neg). Now, take the negative lead and find a good ground. Somwhere on the chassis of the car, not the battery. Take the positive lead and touch it to the positive terminal of the battery. You should read POSITIVE 12volts. I am asking you to do this to make sure your car is properly grounded to the battery. Make sure you read plus 12volts. If you read 0 volts then somewhere a ground is missing to the motor and or frame.

Let me know what you read.

Mach5Racing4 · Jun 1, 2007

thanks Fox, i did exactly how you said and it read 12v. so the grounds are good.

Fox · Jun 1, 2007

OK Mach
In one of your posts, you mentioned that you took a jumper cable and jumped the starter bolt and and the chassis and got sparks. This should not happen and all I can think of at the moment is that a jumper is missing, connecting the motor to the chassis. Both the motor and chassis should be at ground. I am curious if the sparking was a violent spark like a welder, or was it just a few small sparks? If the sparks were minor, I would consider connecting that temporary jumper back up. I don't want you to do this if the sparks are melting metal, but if just a small spark this could be just a small amount of current when connecting up, making the chassis and motor the same ground potential. If you decide to do this, then try starting. If you don't want to try this, then the only thing I can think of at this point, is that your starter relay may be bad. I have the schematics here in front of me. You have one 40 amp fuse supplying power to your ignition switch, then the clutch pedal switch, the anti theft sys, if equiped. I believe you have a manual trans, so that won't matter. After that 12v is applied to the coil of the starter relay, and then 12v is applied to the starter solenoid. I believe at this point is where you said you do not have 12v when trying to crank. Just some quick input for you. But anyway all of this has to happen to get 12v to solenoid.

Hope this helps

Keep me informed and we will continue to try and help.

Mach5Racing4 · Jun 1, 2007

the sparks were a little more than minor but less than a welding spark. i had it connected like this and tried starting it and that was when i got sparks, as soon as the key went forward. the starter is a second brand new one and it does the same thing. the fuses are good. and there is no power going to the smaller spade to the solonoid. i cant figure it out, i dont see why the engine and trans would be positive. thanks for all the help, i'll figure it out yet

Mach5Racing4 · Jun 4, 2007

i moved my battery back to the front of the stang and that didnt help the problem. i'm not sure where to go from here. all the mechanics at the dealership i work at arent sure of what it could be either. does anyone have an idea of what else i could try. also where does the small spade connector that goes to my stater come from, i followed it as far as i could and it goes into a harness. thanks guys!

Fox · Jun 4, 2007

Mach, looking at the schematics, it should be a white/pink wire. This wire goes to the starter relay which is located in a box just behind battery. Remove the top and looking from the front of the car, you should see a lot of fuses and then some app. one inch square relays. Looking left to right, you see a blank space, horn relay, starter relay, and then a fog lamp relay. The wire from your starter should go to the starter relay.

Mach5Racing4 · Jun 4, 2007

ok thanks i will check from there for power

MeanGrn Gt · Jun 4, 2007

wiring/starting problems can be a pita. My starter took a crap on me a few months ago. so i put a new motorcraft starter on it. the old one had a crack on the solenoid. it started good for awhile but then every once in awhile it would grunt awhile and then it didnt want to start. took it to my mechanic and he said it was the spade connector on the solenoid not making good enough contact. pinched it and it was fine for a few more weeks then it wouldnt start again. took it back and he messed with it but couldnt get it to start. tried a new starter and it tried to crank but still wouldnt start it. then he saw the ground on the front of the motor spark while i was cranking it over and he took it off cleaned it up and fixed it properly and it is fine.

ryclef331 · Jun 5, 2007

MeanGrn Gt said:
wiring/starting problems can be a pita. My starter took a crap on me a few months ago. so i put a new motorcraft starter on it. the old one had a crack on the solenoid. it started good for awhile but then every once in awhile it would grunt awhile and then it didnt want to start. took it to my mechanic and he said it was the spade connector on the solenoid not making good enough contact. pinched it and it was fine for a few more weeks then it wouldnt start again. took it back and he messed with it but couldnt get it to start. tried a new starter and it tried to crank but still wouldnt start it. then he saw the ground on the front of the motor spark while i was cranking it over and he took it off cleaned it up and fixed it properly and it is fine.

I agree with this.

You never CLEARLY stated whether you jumped the spade terminal to the positve on the battery or not. IF you've done this and the starter did NOT turn over, you should check your grounds. You also mentioned sparking from the start to the engine. The engine is NOT a hot 12v positive. Check the grounding strap on the left hand side of the engine. If needed add more grounds. Check the security of the them and make sure they are clean.

Mach5Racing4 · Jun 5, 2007

i did run a pos to the spade and it turned the engine over but wouldnt start even with the clutch in and the key all the way forward. i used a jumper cable to ground the engine to the frame and that didnt help either. so i dont think its a ground issue but i could be wrong. i know the engine isnt supposed to be a 12v pos. so thats whats so strange about this whole thing. i am going to look at the car again tonight and thanks for everyone helping me out i will get to the bottom of it! O0

ryclef331 · Jun 5, 2007

Ok so its turns over when you jump the spade terminal. You know then that you have 12volts at the hot wire, the starter itself is good, the grounds are good to turn the starter, and the battery is capable of turning the car over. That leaves TWO THINGS....the starter relay or the switch in the car.

Mach5Racing4 · Jun 5, 2007

it turns it over but wont start it. the only solenoid is the one on the starter its self that i connected the pos jumper to. but even if the ignition switch is bad why would the engine and trans have pos power throughout them? Also the small spade that goes to the starter solenoid doesnt have power to it but theres no blown fuses.

scarface · Jun 5, 2007

Mach5Racing4 said:
it turns it over but wont start it. the only solenoid is the one on the starter its self that i connected the pos jumper to. but even if the ignition switch is bad why would the engine and trans have pos power throughout them? Also the small spade that goes to the starter solenoid doesnt have power to it but theres no blown fuses.

after reading this I will just add one thing to the last post. you say it will turn over but not start. Was this while using a jumper wire? if so, it may sound silly, but did you remember to turn on the key? reason I ask is you can jump the starter with the key off, and nothing else has power.

Fox · Jun 5, 2007

Good point Scarface.

Mach if you located the starter relay, get someone to turn the key, (as if starting), and put your finger on that relay and see if you can feel or hear it operating. If not, there are three relays, all the same part number. The middle one is the starter relay. Pull the one to the right, which is the fog lamp relay, and put it in place of where you pulled the starter relay. See if it will start. If not I would say it is your wiring or key switch.

ryclef331 · Jun 5, 2007

Fox said:
there are three relays, all the same part number. The middle one is the starter relay. Pull the one to the right, which is the fog lamp relay, and put it in place of where you pulled the starter relay. See if it will start. If not I would say it is your wiring or key switch.

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