Good thing we don’t have deadlines to meet because I would’ve been fired years ago.
Casper the Cobra - Procharged 96' Cobra
- Thread starter Venompower
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Venompower
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Feel like I'm hitting a bit of a wall with the planning stage.
The Gen 2 and Gen 3 F-150 Coyote has a different firing order, so in order to use the FRPP Control Pack I would need to change the exhaust camshaft and phaser, not sure if the intake phaser from the F-150 would even work with a Mustang exhaust phaser for timing purposes. So that would have me doing a full cam swap to 18-23 cams. Since the cam tower bolts are torque to yield, would need to swap those as well.
So do I bite the bullet and just swap the cams and move on? Ebay has a set of 18' Mustang GT cams intake and exhaust for $300 that look clean (11k mile Mustang that upgraded cams).
Trying to figure out which angle to attack first, leaning towards removing the heads for clean-up, and starting with the PBH oil pan conversion, and the oil pump, crank sprocket... then moving on to cams/phaser/timing before putting everything back together. Leaving intake, fuel rails, throttle body until the end.
One other thing to note, apparently the 18+ has a forged crankshaft sprocket from Ford, but can find no information on it's strength and if the billet upgrade is still required.
Here's a picture of it on the engine stand I bought last weekend:
The Gen 2 and Gen 3 F-150 Coyote has a different firing order, so in order to use the FRPP Control Pack I would need to change the exhaust camshaft and phaser, not sure if the intake phaser from the F-150 would even work with a Mustang exhaust phaser for timing purposes. So that would have me doing a full cam swap to 18-23 cams. Since the cam tower bolts are torque to yield, would need to swap those as well.
So do I bite the bullet and just swap the cams and move on? Ebay has a set of 18' Mustang GT cams intake and exhaust for $300 that look clean (11k mile Mustang that upgraded cams).
Trying to figure out which angle to attack first, leaning towards removing the heads for clean-up, and starting with the PBH oil pan conversion, and the oil pump, crank sprocket... then moving on to cams/phaser/timing before putting everything back together. Leaving intake, fuel rails, throttle body until the end.
One other thing to note, apparently the 18+ has a forged crankshaft sprocket from Ford, but can find no information on it's strength and if the billet upgrade is still required.
Here's a picture of it on the engine stand I bought last weekend:
For the firing order correction, you have to swap all 4 cams, not just exhaust cams.
If you’re swapping cams, swap all the phasers as well. Some interchange, some do not. The cam tower bolts are debate able. They are said to be one time use, but I have removed mine 3 or 4 times and reused them. The bolts are not torqued very high, and mine have held up great. If you don’t want to do that, then you can get the arp bolts.
If you’re swapping cams, swap all the phasers as well. Some interchange, some do not. The cam tower bolts are debate able. They are said to be one time use, but I have removed mine 3 or 4 times and reused them. The bolts are not torqued very high, and mine have held up great. If you don’t want to do that, then you can get the arp bolts.
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Venompower
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I’d prefer to not use ARP for something like the cam tower, had planned on head bolts… though the 18+ aren’t even available from LMR and from what I’ve found are like $450? LMR does have a Ford Racing set of head bolts and I can’t tell if they are TTY or reusable?
The head bolts are tty, and I don’t typically reuse them. Check out apex head studs. They are being made by Boundary (the same company making oil pumps). I saw those studs at PRI last year and was really impressed.
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Venompower
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I know the regular are TTY but there’s another set by FRPP that are marketed as being better than the normal head bolts it’s just not clear if they are still TTY.
I’ll check out Apex, saw those on some YouTubers Coyote build.
joemomma
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This makes my head hurt lol. Seems a lot of ways this could go sideways if you're not VERY diligent in your research.
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Venompower
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It's really not that bad in my mind, as long as you put everything in the appropriate "bucket."
For example, the stock composite oil pan won't fit... through research and suggestion I know I need the PBH Gen 2 Oil pan conversion kit, and I can add new oil pump with boundary oil pump gears to that bucket and it's done.
For the timing, it's a longer list... but same concept.
Once I get my lists and excel sheet in order, it's just a matter of buying it all and then installing it.
The timing used to scare me lol, but I watched enough step-by-step YouTube videos, that I'm actually excited for that part... seems like a satisfying job. I still need to do some more research on cam position for attaching the phasers/sprockets (I believe they only attach one way, and the timing marks should be opposite horizontal on the exterior of each phaser). Not being in a rush should also make it go more smoothly.
The timing can be tricky, but it’s easy as long as you pay attention. I will try to get the ford procedure for setting the timing and post it up for you.
for sure toss that composite oil pan. And if a better pick up tube is made for your aftermarket oil pan, replace it as well. We made those oil pans and pick up tubes at my work. Believe me when i say replace them.
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Venompower
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Seems like you start with keyway at 12, which puts all pistons out of contact, and then start with phasers and secondary timing chains with timing marks opposite each other. The single link should be on the intake cam and the two links should straddle the exhaust timing mark, then move on the primary matching links, then before activating a single side of tensioners verify that no links jumped. That's my quick knowledge.
That being said, I'll take any Ford info. for the systems I'm working on because I don't have any manuals with proedure or torque specs and was going to have to write that all down from researching. Thanks!
Which ones did you make? I'm leaning towards just grabbing the power by the hour pan conversion, but either way I'll be using a Ford Gen 2 pan.
I have to double check the gen 3 stuff, but the gen 2’s time like that but you time one side of the engine then rotate the crankshaft and time the other side of the engine.
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Venompower
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I think you time driver side first?
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Venompower
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Picking up an 18+ Intake Manifold with MMR lockouts, and a fuel rail for $240 on Thursday!
Where would you look for diagrams? I noticed that the Gen 3 only has one sensor at the front of the valve covers compared to two on the Gen 2? Would love to start reviewing all the connectors and stuff.
Where would you look for diagrams? I noticed that the Gen 3 only has one sensor at the front of the valve covers compared to two on the Gen 2? Would love to start reviewing all the connectors and stuff.
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Venompower
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Just picked up the intake, don’t need the fuel rail unless I delete direct injection:
Should be picking up a crank pulley and throttle body tomorrow.
Should be picking up a crank pulley and throttle body tomorrow.
Musturd
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nice . I need to start sourcing coyote parts
Gen 3 uses direct and port injection. You need both
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Venompower
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That’s what I was saying, I don’t need this fuel rail unless I wanted to delete direct injection… which I don’t. The guy included it with the intake, maybe I can sell it…
No, I mean youre going to need that fuel rail AND the direct injection. You'll use that
Gen 3 uses both port and direct. And if you pull the port injectors out, you'll have vacuum leaks right there.
