Suspension upgrade !

Discussion in '96-04 - 2V Specific' started by Dalamar, Apr 8, 2006.

  1. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Hey guys, I had this thread on Corral,
    thought I'd post it up here.

    I relpaced all my suspension last fall -
    learned a few things, thought I'd share the love.



    I started just doing coil over's to go with the HP TT kit I was almost ready to order.
    Suspension is a lot more complicated than you may think.

    I ended up doing the whole thing, and putting off the turbo.
    Glad I did BC HP has issues, and I'm looking at a better kit.

    Anyway, started with the GMS rear coil overs.
    the guy recommended solid uppers and LCA's

    So, I said - "SURE" and they showed up.

    I did some research and found out some interesting info about
    upper mount design, and the torque box of the car - more on that later.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Found out that solid uppers are noisy, and I hate noisy cars, so I sent them back.
    for the "quiet, adjustable uppers"
    Also ordered front K memeber and A arms (QA1) and a steeda bumpsteer kit.



    Installed the rear stuff
    Droped the rear 2 1/4.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    So the other parts arrived, and I jumped into it.

    Here's the parts for the front end.
    parts parts parts.

    Those are the quiet uppers in the middle.

    [​IMG]


    Also got my front coil overs, which are more complicated, Koni Strutts, and was trying to see
    if i assembled them correctly.

    GMS's instructions sucked ass, so I went searching - and came across Maximum Motorsports online instructions
    for they're coil overs.
    So, I figured I'd call them and ask some questions.
    He gave me some advice, and had me check some things.

    I also needed to set the pinion angle, and asked him the what and why's of that.

    Dam- I wish I would have called them first. they know they're stuff!
    Uppers - bad for street cars, 3-bolt CC plates - very bad for coil overs.

    Sent more parts back, and bucked up for the good stuff from MM
     
  4. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Here's what I learned after my "suspension 101" with MM.

    With coil over's 3 bolt CC plates aren't strong enough. with the hole offset, and the
    extra weight, the upward force is on the axis of 2 bolts.
    Basicilly - hit a hard bump, and it will probably break and send your strut through the hood.
    So I got their 4 bolt plates. excellent quality, very strong, sphearical bushings - ;D

    I also swaped the spacers around to move the strut up - giving me that much
    more adjustment for height.



    I ditched the uppers, because:
    There is a design flaw on the mount itself from Ford.
    The angle at which it articulates binds up with the motion of the axle.
    From fox bodies on up to 04 models, the unibody / mounts is the same!

    The stock uppers have oval shaped holes so they will not bind up.
    When you change them out with aftermarket arms with tighter / more solid bushings,
    they will bind and transfer the force into the mounts / sheetmetal of the floor of your car.

    Ever heard of someone tearing out they're torque box???
    or having to reinforce the torque box?
    that's what that is.

    If you're just driving at the strip, it will hold up for a while.
    If you're driving it on the street where the suspension articulates, if HP is added, it
    will bend it up eventually. probably sooner rather than later.

    If you dont' believe me, call them and ask em yourself.


    So I sent the uppers back to Steeda, and put the stock one's back on.
    To help with traction and axle deflection, I went with the Panhard assembly.
     
  5. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Next shipment came.

    The struts before assembly:

    [​IMG]



    Installed the front K member and A arms, then did the Front strut's / coil overs (GMS)

    [​IMG]


    Here's the front assembled, K member, A arms, Coil's, and bumpsteer
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Here's the CC plates.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Here's the Drop!

    Took off the Roush body.
    Love that stock ride height. Looks ready for some serious off road.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    What do you think of the ride with coilovers in the front?
     
  8. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Installed the panhard, and put on an eibach rear sway.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Right about then the snow hit


    Check out all this stock crap.
    I think I lost about 45# :) :D

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Next was the MM XL subs.
    welded them on and painted.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Note: I had to modify the rear coil over mount to work with the MM panhard mount.

    On the bumpsteer - the puropose of that is to keep the steering arm parallel to the A arm.
    if it isn't it will pull the bottom of the wheel in and out, as the suspension goe's up and down.
     
  12. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Month or 2 went buy, and the roads cleared up enough to go get it alligned.

    So, the QA1 K memeber, A arms, coilover (struts) and CC plates, checked out.
    With the camber plates adjusted all the way out, I have -0.6 degrees of camber.
    Caster is also fine, and there's no visible bumpsteer.

    A few things I need to fine tune:
    I also had the front sway too tight (impacted) that it was squeeking a little.
    I also thought I had the spacers wrong BC there was a knock on one side.



    My car did ride harsher on dips and bumps, but it was so much more solid and predictable.
    Felt good, but needed a little tuning.
     
  13. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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  14. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    If I pay for shipping will you ship me the two little "holders" that the bolts screw into on that bar that runs below the tranny. It ties the back of the factory K together. Anyway, i can't find the nuts/threaded jobbies that go on top. Lemme know. Its the last bar on the far right that shows all your OEM stuff. I hope your front coil overs ride better than mine did, which is exactly why I am going back to stock.

    Adam
     
  15. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    I started looking into the knocking and came to find out this:


    Aside from the rear coil over's - GMS sux donkey balls.

    I just replaced my front coil over's with MM pieces and Hypercoil springs.
    The GMS perches are too sloppy, and the springs were not truly perpendicular
    on top.

    They were rubbing on the collar, and making noise - so they're gone.
    there goes another 300 bucks.

    I've learned the hard way that MM really know's they're stuff,
    They cost a little more because they're engineered quality parts,
    and they're better!.



    Check it out.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The rear GMS coil over's are fine.
    Not as good as Koni's with hypercoils, but fine for the rear....

    :hammer:
     
  16. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    The other thing I've learned is what to do about the harshness.

    My QA1 K and A-arms have a lower pivot point than the Stock K.
    (hence the bumpsteer)

    So, when it's lowered alot, the arms are already on an upward angle.
    this means there isn't much travel left, and it will ride harsh. that's what it was doing.

    So I raised up the front about 3/4 inch to help with this.
    It was cool - only took me about 10 minutes!!

    My car handels so much nicer, the ride is not as soft, but this is a sports car.
    the best words I can think of to describe it are: predictable and solid.
    Not solid harsh, but solid like there is no sway or slop to it.
    Handels waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

    I still need to put some serious drive time on it, but I've taken it out about 5 nights since it was assembled.
     
  17. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Adam,
    Sure, if I can find them. I hauled all that to a storage body at our shop.
    are they a clip / nut combo?


    What K member were/are you using?


    I've read a few posts from ppl stating that the MM k member rides the best. I had to go with the QA1 pieces
    for clearance for the turbo piping. So i'll have to sacrafice a little ride quality for power.

    I also plan on running my car on the road track occasionally.
     
  18. Adam

    Adam Well-Known Member

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    I think they were basically the same set up that is used on the back 4 K bolts. where you have a bolt that threads into the little clips. lemme know. I bought my K member from Jason Smith at PA Racing about 2 years ago. I also bought Fox body specific A arms, Coilovers AFCO springs, and Strut 10 way front adjustable struts..and UPR 4 Bolt C/C plates. Anyway when I bought this K member CO set ups were all the rage. i got caught up in it and finally figured out that it just isn't the combo I need for my cars power output. The quality of the K and A arms was outstanding. Tough as nails light as hell. They were Chromoly. The Coilovers were just annoying loud. they sqeaked and popped and just made too much noise. if you look at how the spring is positioned over the strut and how the whole set-twists as the wheel is turned each direction, it is a miracle that they aren't louder. I have yet to hear a coilover that wasn't loud. Between that, and everything being solid in the front end, I just didn't enjoy driving the car on the street anymore. So I sold all of it. If I had to do it again, I would buy another Tubular K, this time with spring perches welded in. Use stock a arms and custom cut springs Shock of your choice. Factory ride, lowered stance, adjustability, the weight loss of the tube K, and the quietness of the stock set-up. I have nothing against Jason Smith, he did not oversell me, I overbought. Good luck with your new set up, looks great, hope it rides TWICE as good as it looks. I know what its like to drop a wad of cash and be unhappy with the results.

    Adam
     
  19. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    Adam - email me or message me with your address.


    Today was a nice day - and, I was thinking about what you're saying...
    so, I secured my unpainted front cover, zip tied my turn bulbs and took my car out for a ride.

    I must say, it rides really good.
    With the GMS setup, and being about 2 1/2" lowered - was on the stiff side.
    and I had that knock - kinda squeek thing going on in the front.

    I switched to the MM front coil overs, and raised it up a little - as I stated above.
    It rides perfect IMO.
    No sound at all, i was hitting man hole covers and stuff to see if it was noisy or banged hard -
    doesn't. takes it just fine. it feels really good.
    Big difference from when I first drove it after putting everything on.

    Once again, Maximum Motorsports delivers.
    I'm not unhappy with the $$$ I spent, I am unhappy with myself for not calling them in the first place.

    Matt has the same thing on his car.



    Good luck with your new combo,
    Post up what you're doing, I'd like to see it.

    I do want to ask you some questions about how you think I should build my R470...
    It's coming up.

    -Jeff
     
  20. Dalamar

    Dalamar Well-Known Member SN95 Supporter Retired Staff

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    If you look at the last string of pictures I posted, the coil over pieces are shown.

    Some differences I noticed between the MM and GMS were,
    their springs were better, and truely flat on top and bottom where they sit on the perch collars.
    I'm running 300# on the front and 200# on the rear.

    The top piece has a roller bearing that sits in a machined area in the top cap, against the CC plate,
    and it has a groove and O ring that goes on the outside to keep water out!!

    there is also that white doughnut thing, that is like a bump snubber hickamajib - if you bottom out the strut.

    Plus their stuff is hardened ect - you can read up on they're page for more info.


    Just though I'd point that out since we're on the subject. :bunny3: