Stock trans or C4?

Kris · Jan 18, 2010

Ok, so my stock T5 is on its death bed. It struggles to go into 4th and has the death whine lol.

I have a stock C4 laying around, has a manual valve body.

My buddy has a stock trans outta his 90GT that has a manual valve body that he would practically give to me.

Which would be a more reliable trans?

Or

Would buying another stock T5 be better?

My car visits the drag strip almost weekly. Also, id have to swap out ECU's right?

My setup is a stock Cobra longblock with full exhaust, 4.10s, 28" slicks, spray, should make around 400whp and no clue on the torque. Just guestimating.

modo · Jan 18, 2010

fix the t-5 or get a new one. going to a c4 properly is a bit involved and will cost you more then fixing what you have even with the free transmission

Kris · Jan 19, 2010

Yea, C4s are expensive to build. So a stock T5 will outlast a stock auto trans?

What other stock trans, both auto and manual, will bolt up to a 302 with a different bell housing that are fairly strong? Also less than $500 LOL.

modo · Jan 19, 2010

Kris said:
Yea, C4s are expensive to build. So a stock T5 will outlast a stock auto trans?

What other stock trans, both auto and manual, will bolt up to a 302 with a different bell housing that are fairly strong? Also less than $500 LOL.

stock is a relative term. the transmissions you listed above are not stock if they have a manual valve-body. i have driven stock t-5s well into the low 11s and they were fine with years of beatings. luck? maybe... 500 bucks your not going to get much without looking for a while. find a t-5z and use the fox bell. worst case senario is you would have to grind the tack welds on the crossmember to get it to fit

Paul · Jan 19, 2010

Tremec TKO 500. Problem solved.

Kris · Jan 19, 2010

What's a T-5z? Never heard of it.

Isn't the TKO 500 one of the older Temecs? I heard mostly bad thing about those. People were going with the 3350 over the 500 but I'm not making gobs of power either so yea.

A manual valve body is cheap and id toss one in on any auto I buy. That's why I didn't know what other trans from different years of stangs or other ford cars would fit. I heard a 3650 will fit but I think those are costly.

modo · Jan 19, 2010

Kris said:
What's a T-5z? Never heard of it.

Isn't the TKO 500 one of the older Temecs? I heard mostly bad thing about those. People were going with the 3350 over the 500 but I'm not making gobs of power either so yea.

A manual valve body is cheap and id toss one in on any auto I buy. That's why I didn't know what other trans from different years of stangs or other ford cars would fit. I heard a 3650 will fit but I think those are costly.

t-5z was the t-5 that was in the 93 cobra and sold via ford motorsports. it is as strong as a 3550

500 is a stout trans as is the 600 and they are the new versions of the tko vs the old which was just I or II

some people claim that the new tkos do not like to be shifted above 6000 rpm. i have not had issues with my tko600 above 7000 rpm so i can't agree to them claims

Crone · Jan 19, 2010

My neighbor traded a c6 straightup for a built c4 with the torque converter, and he runs low 11's high 10's constant, and this is his strictly track car, so it takes a good beating..... He only paid 200 dollars for the c6, so I'm sure you can find a good deal if you look around.

Kris · Jan 19, 2010

I was told C6's are better for laftger engines with more power..and C4's are for the small blocks.... idk.

My car has a 95 cobra motor and trans. Does it have the T5z?

How can I tell if the trans is a T5z if I go to buy one?

Crone · Jan 19, 2010

c6's are pretty heavy even compared to a c4. He was running a 351 block. I don't know to overly much about the car, except it hauls ass. I would think that there is some kind of serial number on the trans but I have no idea...

modo · Jan 19, 2010

to make a c6 fit you will have to beat the snot out of the trans tunnel... waste of time. if you want something that will take more then a c4 can reliably (600+rwhp), then look into a th400 or a glide

all of which will be 1000s, not the > 500 you want

casting number will tell you what it is. i do not know if the 95 cobras had the t-5z or not

Jrgunn5150 · Jan 19, 2010

I say run the C4, get the right crossmember, shifter, and dshaft and go run the crap out of it. You will not need to swap ECU's BTW

Hell, even if it turns out you need a built one down the road, I can pop out a C4 that will take whatever you can dish for about 1200 bucks with a lifetime warranty, and so can a pile of other reputable companies of your choice.

The T5 can be built well too, but if you're done shifting gear's, and just wanna stab and go, the C4 is a great trans.

FYI all 94-95 GT's and Cobra's have World Class T5's, the "Z" spec is a Motorsports replacement part.

modo · Jan 19, 2010

J.R. said:
I say run the C4, get the right crossmember, shifter, and dshaft and go run the crap out of it. You will not need to swap ECU's BTW

Hell, even if it turns out you need a built one down the road, I can pop out a C4 that will take whatever you can dish for about 1200 bucks with a lifetime warranty, and so can a pile of other reputable companies of your choice.

The T5 can be built well too, but if you're done shifting gear's, and just wanna stab and go, the C4 is a great trans.

FYI all 94-95 GT's and Cobra's have World Class T5's, the "Z" spec is a Motorsports replacement part.

trans - 1200
converter - minimum 400
flexplate - ~100
block plate - ~ 50
stack plate cooler - 100
shifter - 100
-an fittings / lines - ~100

then comes wiring in the neutral safety switch and reverse lights.

sure one can hack it and get some of the parts used but dude said he wants to spend 500 bucks

Jrgunn5150 · Jan 19, 2010

modo said:
trans - 1200
converter - minimum 400
flexplate - ~100
block plate - ~ 50
stack plate cooler - 100
shifter - 100
-an fittings / lines - ~100

then comes wiring in the neutral safety switch and reverse lights.

sure one can hack it and get some of the parts used but dude said he wants to spend 500 bucks

Your prices are a wee bit insane...

But anyhow, he doesn't need 1200 for the trans, he has two...

Flexplates are 25 bucks at pretty much any recycler's. He can probably get someone to give him the block plate. i'm sure the transmissions he has, have converter's on them. No need for AN fitting's or braided lines either...

But I'm not going to argue you to death over it. If you like T5's, use them, if the OP likes them, use them... If you want to build them you can, easily, for nice power and shifting.

But if you want to run a C4, you can do that too. The one's he has will be just fine, he can always upgrade thing's down the road, or go back to a T5 if you want. That's the nice thing about doing thing's cheap, you can always go back and undo or redo as the situation warrant's.

modo · Jan 19, 2010

J.R. said:
modo said:

trans - 1200
converter - minimum 400
flexplate - ~100
block plate - ~ 50
stack plate cooler - 100
shifter - 100
-an fittings / lines - ~100

then comes wiring in the neutral safety switch and reverse lights.

sure one can hack it and get some of the parts used but dude said he wants to spend 500 bucks

Click to expand...

Your prices are a wee bit insane...

But anyhow, he doesn't need 1200 for the trans, he has two...

Flexplates are 25 bucks at pretty much any recycler's. He can probably get someone to give him the block plate. i'm sure the transmissions he has, have converter's on them. No need for AN fitting's or braided lines either...

But I'm not going to argue you to death over it. If you like T5's, use them, if the OP likes them, use them... If you want to build them you can, easily, for nice power and shifting.

But if you want to run a C4, you can do that too. The one's he has will be just fine, he can always upgrade thing's down the road, or go back to a T5 if you want. That's the nice thing about doing thing's cheap, you can always go back and undo or redo as the situation warrant's.

not insane they are realistic for parts that will work and are correct and new. you said you can build him a trans... i would assume then you are a trans guy then. your recommending dude re-use a used converter on a fresh trans? hell even with a flush there is going to be contaminates in the old converter that could easily wipe that c4. hell if its a stock c4 the trans would be what almost 40+ years old.

someone give him the block plate? thats great but unless he checks the converter to flexplate clearance to make sure someone didn't hack up a t5 plate then the front pump could go bye bye.

-an fittings / braided line are the easiest way vs bending tube since these cars never came with a c4... or would you rather rig it by cutting tube and using hose clamps / rubber hose...

lets be realistic here... he never stated what his intended application. i'll stick to my current opinion that he should just spend the money to fix what he currently has.

i don't do things "cheap", i do them the correct way with the money i have. i have had a t-5, 3550, c4, powerglide, and now a tko600 in my 93. all in that order. what is the point to putting used / half a$$ stuff in a car that will have to be changed or perhaps cause a issue down the road and cost you even more money

Kris · Jan 19, 2010

I guess I should add some more details to help. I take the car to the track weekly to bracket race. Eventually, the car will be an auto, for consistency and reliability.
I've pretty much spent my limit for the year as far as mods go. So its either the stock C4 with a manual valve body or a stock auto trans that also has a manual valve body. Whichever would be best for the track and more reliable how it sits.

Or I can pray to god my T5 stays together haha.

I want the car to go high 11s this season. Cobra motor, full exhaust, 4.10s, 150 wet shot, tune, and a handfull of other mods

modo · Jan 19, 2010

Kris said:
I guess I should add some more details to help. I take the car to the track weekly to bracket race. Eventually, the car will be an auto, for consistency and reliability.
I've pretty much spent my limit for the year as far as mods go. So its either the stock C4 with a manual valve body or a stock auto trans that also has a manual valve body. Whichever would be best for the track and more reliable how it sits.

Or I can pray to god my T5 stays together haha.

I want the car to go high 11s this season. Cobra motor, full exhaust, 4.10s, 150 wet shot, tune, and a handfull of other mods

drive the 5 speed until you can get more then just a stock auto with a manual valve body. get one with the correct hard parts, trans brake, i would get a non full manual valve body as a personal preference. what the trans is depends more on if you want over-drive or not and gear ratios.

if you start wacking a stock or cheap converter with a 150 shot without anti-ballooning plates you are asking for trouble. let alone a stock c4 lol

Kris · Jan 19, 2010

Very true. Well, hopefully this T5 lasts me.

Ohh, and as for C4's, the only thing I hate is no overdrive.. I don't drive my car on the highway all that much, but when I do, it's not bad with the T5. With a C4 it would be horrendous, the car would be screaming the RPM's lol.

Jrgunn5150 · Jan 20, 2010

modo said:
not insane they are realistic for parts that will work and are correct and new. you said you can build him a trans... i would assume then you are a trans guy then. your recommending dude re-use a used converter on a fresh trans? hell even with a flush there is going to be contaminates in the old converter that could easily wipe that c4. hell if its a stock c4 the trans would be what almost 40+ years old.

someone give him the block plate? thats great but unless he checks the converter to flexplate clearance to make sure someone didn't hack up a t5 plate then the front pump could go bye bye.

-an fittings / braided line are the easiest way vs bending tube since these cars never came with a c4... or would you rather rig it by cutting tube and using hose clamps / rubber hose...

lets be realistic here... he never stated what his intended application. i'll stick to my current opinion that he should just spend the money to fix what he currently has.

i don't do things "cheap", i do them the correct way with the money i have. i have had a t-5, 3550, c4, powerglide, and now a tko600 in my 93. all in that order. what is the point to putting used / half a$$ stuff in a car that will have to be changed or perhaps cause a issue down the road and cost you even more money

There indeed could be contaminates in an old converter that would wipe the trans... But if it came off the functioning trans he has, I highly doubt it. But, even if he does wipe it, so what? I guess my point if, if he decides to go the C4 route, it's more important to get all the supporting pieces in place. When he's done he'll either upgrade the C4 or sell the "swap kit" and recoup most if not all of his cost's.

On the internet people will tell you you "need" a billet titanium crank hand machined by virgins, and you "need" a golden intercooler hammered out on Mt Olympus by Syssphus... I'm assuming you've been around car's for awhile and if you have, then we both know that you often times don't "need" thing's that people on the internet tell you you do. Most of these thing's are a good idea, and certainly don't hurt anything at all. However, often times the internet and forums get people so convinced that in order for them to do anything to their car at all without having it burst into flames they need to spend 1500 bucks on a CAI.

I'm all for doing thing's right, once, and being done. I think it goes without saying that new part's are better than used. I don't like to upsell people though, and I like to give them all their options with the pro's and cons of each option.

The point of doing something, as you say, "half assed", is so you don't spend the full ass price when you don't even know if you like it.

You are correct in the respect that we don't/didn't know the intended usage. I looked at the mod list and saw someone pretty serious about heading to the track, and leaned towards the easier dragstrip option. Of course with the C4, you lose both overdrive and it has no lockup function for the converter either. If it's a weekend car that's fine, as well as it's not that big a deal if the C4 poops the bed either. If it's your get to work/school car, I highly recomend leaving it stock until you have the luxury of making the stang a weekend car.