The everything suspension 95 GT

[Warhorse Racing]

GWs are good for 84-04. I ordered them. Slight backorder though.

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Thanks for confirming that. It will help a lot of people.

In my "ThoroughbRED Part 3A" video, there is a breakdown of install tips for the Delrin rack bushings. You want to clean up the bushing holes in the rack, and remove any sharp edges on the sleeves and the faces of the rack bolt washers. Although the instructions didn't call for grease, I used a thin film of waterproof synthetic Green Grease everywhere the bushings touched metal.

 

[beyondEOD]

I recieved the BMR A Arms today. Started to tear down the stock setup up front.

Ordered Moog Outer Tie Rod Ends. Inners felt tight still so I'm going to rock them.

KYB quads and Wild Rides TQ Box kit came in as well.

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[beyondEOD]

I'd do MM CC plates. They are extremely high quality and you'll never look back.

On a 1" drop, I'd just get MOOG tie rod ends. While I was in there I did MOOG inners as well but that's depending on your budget.

I've read to use stock UCA with new rubber bushings but I did get the BBK uppers. I don't drag hard so I'm not sure what issues I'll run into. I also have BMR UCA reinforcement kit with weld in battle box reinforcements.

Subframes I have MM and they fit amazingly well and made a HUGE difference.

It's hard to go wrong with anything MM. Their advice is usually rock solid on our platforms. Good luck!

Yeah MM is pretty adamant about running a stock set of uppers to reduce bind but I've never seen them talk about a spherical upper axle bushing.

MM recommended to run the stockers with new rubber bushings or the steeda non adjustable with poly.

I did find steeda double adjustable uppers for $100 but I'm not sure I want to mess with more adjustment if I dont really need it.

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[Warhorse Racing]

Yeah MM is pretty adamant about running a stock set of uppers to reduce bind but I've never seen them talk about a spherical upper axle bushing.

MM recommended to run the stockers with new rubber bushings or the steeda non adjustable with poly.

I did find steeda double adjustable uppers for $100 but I'm not sure I want to mess with more adjustment if I dont really need it.

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The spherical upper axle bushings articulate much more than OEM rubber or poly. Along with other mods that work to reduce Quadra-bind, they move the limit of traction further out. Having autocrossed cars with OEM rubber, 2-piece poly and spherical upper axle bushings, I can tell you for sure that the added articulation helps with how composed the car feels at the limit.

 

[beyondEOD]

I do agree the spherical sounds like it will be the better of the two setups. Just thought it odd that MM does not discuss them.

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[evilcw311]

I do agree the spherical sounds like it will be the better of the two setups. Just thought it odd that MM does not discuss them.

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Mm isn’t the only place to get good tech knowledge. And their way isn’t always 100% the best way. Plenty others have had great setups doin it differently. Griggs is a great example.


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[OLD H2S]

What ^ said..

 

[ttocs]

Mm isn’t the only place to get good tech knowledge. And their way isn’t always 100% the best way. Plenty others have had great setups doin it differently. Griggs is a great example.


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somebody bring back cobraracer to begin this debate, again....

 

[DKblue98GT]

somebody bring back cobraracer to begin this debate, again....

Noooo, I'm still drunk from the last time...

 

[CobraEd]

Yeah MM is pretty adamant about running a stock set of uppers to reduce bind but I've never seen them talk about a spherical upper axle bushing.

MM recommended to run the stockers with new rubber bushings or the steeda non adjustable with poly.

I did find steeda double adjustable uppers for $100 but I'm not sure I want to mess with more adjustment if I dont really need it.

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Jack Hidley has talked to me about spherical uppers. I had Steeda double adjustable uppers & MM lowers with 3 piece poly bushing at chassis end, and spherical bushings in axle end. I also have MM panhard bar. I already have lots of MM stuff on both my 85 GT & 03 Cobra. I emailed MM Tech because I was getting more MM components to completely fill out the MM Road & Track Box & I wanted advice on spring selection, alignment and other setup info. My intended use is street, autoX, and occasional open track. Jack told me that the spherical uppers were good for straight line, and better at locating the rear end side to side than the stock uppers but would cause binding in cornering situations, and would cause even more binding when using a panhard bar, so I should not use them with a panhard bar. The problem I was experiencing with that control arm setup was snap oversteer. I tested this both with and without the panhard bar installed. When accelerating through a sweeping expressway on ramp, as soon as i would let off the throttle I experienced snap oversteer.

I got new stock style uppers & installed new rubber bushings in the rear axle, along with the new spring, struts, and bumpsteer kit.

A word about bumpsteer. You're probably fine at close to stock ride height, but the only way to know how much bumpsteer you have is to measure it with a bumpsteer gauge through out the range of movement of the suspension. Setting the tie rod ends parallel to the ground (straight out) does not minimize bumpsteer because the tie rod ends and the ball joint move through different acrcs of movement. If its lowered a lot, bumpsteer is more of a problem but you have to measure it and experiment with different amounts of shimming to minimize it. Setting the tie rods straight will not do it. MM tech info on bumpsteer explains is well.

 

[ttocs]

A word about bumpsteer. You're probably fine at close to stock ride height, but the only way to know how much bumpsteer you have is to measure it with a bumpsteer gauge through out the range of movement of the suspension.
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I disagree. It only takes a short drive on bumpy road to know how much bump steer you have Of course I am kidding and understand what your saying but we all remember that first time we experienced bump steer. It reminds me of the first time I experienced torque steer in general its never fun to have the wheel trying to do something you didn't plan.

 

[Warhorse Racing]

It's impossible to eliminate all bind from the SRA suspension in our cars (when using the stock-style UCA/LCA design). The goal is to move the limit of traction as far out as possible. And, to get the car to feel composed at the limit. Everything has to work together to achieve those goals.

I'm not a big fan of the Torque Arm/Panhard Bar setup for our cars. But, I know many people who use that setup on their autocross cars and they're very happy with how their cars handle. If MM says there's no benefit to using spherical upper axle bushings with their other mods, I would tend to believe them.

The decision about a rear suspension setup is always a tough one. Every company has a different philosophy when it comes to getting the most rear grip. It's a good idea to look at all the available options.

If you don't plan on using a TA/PB setup, I think you'll see a benefit from spherical upper axle bushings when you autocross the car. With a Steeda Adjustable Rear Sway Bar and my suspension dialed-in for autocross, I didn't have any issues with snap oversteer.

 

[OLD H2S]

I have the MM TA/PB set up and meh..., it is better, but it works best in straight line acceleration and hard braking. I dumped the rear coil overs and am using an Airlift rear bag set up now and the easy adjustments is what I gained and needed in a multi discipline car. The MM is good if you are running one type of set up that you can fine tune to it.
My opinion is free.

 

[OLD H2S]

And I mean hard braking..my street kit is S197s on the front and moved the Cobra PBRs to the rear.

 

[beyondEOD]

I definitely dont plan on a PH bar or TQ Arm. The goal is definitely to do as much with less as I can.

Would you guys put priority to the LCA or the UCA with spherical on axle side if I went that route?

Here is what Jack from MM sent.
"If you are going to launch the car in N20 and use a drag radial tire, you will need RLCAs with spherical bearings in both ends. Without those, the car will have a lot of wheel hop. For the UCAs you can use either new stock rubber bushings or Steeda UCAs with 3-piece polyurethane. If you install spherical bearings or rod ends in the UCAs, the rear suspension will be bound up and lots of parts will start breaking. If you are on a budget, you don't want to go down that path. We have several versions of RLCAs with spherical bearings for your car."

Considering this and all you guys have shared here this is the rear setup I'm thinking about trying first (remember more with less, but not crappy)

KYB Quad Shocks
U/L Tq Box Kit
BMR 1in Springs
Poly Spring ISOs
Strange SA Shocks
Stock rear 23mm sway
MM Poly Chassis side and Spherical Axle side LCAs
Spherical Upper Axle bearings
Poly UCAs (Adjustable needed?)

Going to look at some MM subframe connectors locally tomorrow.


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[Warhorse Racing]

The fact that you want to do both drag racing and autocross is what makes this question tricky to answer. I have never drag raced my cars, and you won't launch nearly as hard at an autocross as you would at a drag race, so you should definitely factor that in to my advice...

I have run UCAs and LCAs with 3-piece poly bushings (chassis side and axle side) on my SRA cars for years. After many events, my torque boxes showed NO signs of damage (I don't use reinforcements). I highly recommend Steeda UCAs and LCAs.

Recently, I've started using spherical bushings in the upper axle position. The car felt more composed in transitions.​

If you plan on doing both autocross and drag racing, you will get benefits from improved UCAs and LCAs.

If you plan on adjusting your pinion angle for drag racing, or lowering the car a lot more, the adjustable UCAs are the right choice. But, most of the people I know who autocross their cars and have lowered them 1" do not use adjustable UCAs.

 

[beyondEOD]

It is probably better to build out for AX and Street than for drag after reading all the different setups.

I dont plan to drag for $$ or points so it would just be for fun. Also I believe with the adjustable shocks, drag tire, and by disconnecting the front sway I will get desired effects at my power level.

With that said does that help in factoring the setup?

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[beyondEOD]

I picked up the MM Subframes today here locally from a guy that used to road race his 02 GT. I told him what I was trying to do and he really questioned why I was not going with a PHB.

Any reason besides cost that I should not run one for my setup? Its will cost roughly $200 more to run a PHB.

 

[Warhorse Racing]

I picked up the MM Subframes today here locally from a guy that used to road race his 02 GT. I told him what I was trying to do and he really questioned why I was not going with a PHB.

Any reason besides cost that I should not run one for my setup? Its will cost roughly $200 more to run a PHB.

Choosing the type of rear suspension you want to run is a very personal choice. Some people love a Panhard Bar, others prefer a Watt's Link, some just use shocks, struts and sway bars to get the car to handle how they want. It all comes down to the question, "What am I asking the car to do that it can't do?"

The setup you have is a pretty solid start for an autocross car. It's certainly enough for you to dial the car in and determine your driving style on course. And to see what your competition is running.

I would encourage you to drive or ride along in cars with all different types of rear suspension before making a decision.

 

[beyondEOD]

Warhorse, I do like that philosophy and I appreciate your input. Let's see how she does with the current setup. Easier to learn something by starting small anyhow.